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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Amanda<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Someone’s probably already pointed this out, but English also has ‘squillion’ and ‘gazillion’ for much larger indeterminate numbers than ‘umpteen’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Associate Professor Bill Palmer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lead Investigator, <i>OzSpace</i> project<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Landscape, language and culture in Indigenous Australia.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Vice-President (Research Support), Australian Linguistics Society<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:bill.palmer@newcastle.edu.au"><span style="color:windowtext">bill.palmer@newcastle.edu.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://newcastle.edu.au/profile/firstname-lastname"><span style="color:black">newcastle.edu.au/profile/Bill-Palmer</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">College of Human & Social Futures<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The University of Newcastle<br>
University Drive, Callaghan NSW 2308 Australia<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sebastian Nordhoff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 23 February 2022 3:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Approximative numerals with emotive content<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<br>
On 2/22/22 16:53, Bastian Persohn wrote:<br>
> Dear Amanda,<br>
> <br>
> I’n not entirely sure if this is what you are looking for, but <br>
> colloquial German has /drölf, /a blend of /drei/ ’three’ and <br>
> /zwölf/ ’twelve’.<br>
> <br>
> It commonly means something like ‚any number between three and twelve‘ <br>
> but can also be used in the sense of ‚an unknown or unspecified large <br>
> quantity‘. <br>
<br>
<br>
To me, "drölf" has a clear value of '13', as it follows "elf" '11' and <br>
"zwölf" '12'. The equivalent in pseudo-English would be 'threlve'.<br>
<br>
For higher indeterminate numbers, you can use "drölfzig" 'threlvety' and <br>
"drölfzigtausend" 'threlvety thousand'. As in English, the suffix "-zig" <br>
'-ty' can only combine with single digit numbers, which adds to the <br>
humourous effect (cf. "femtio-elva", where the "elva" part presumably <br>
cannot be used in compounds either).<br>
<br>
I feel that these numbers are not "approximative" though, but rather <br>
"indeterminate". "femtioelva" does not mean ~50, "quarante-douze" does <br>
not mean ~50, and 117 does not mean ~100, but rather "a somewhat (too) <br>
large number where the speaker does not really have an idea of the <br>
magnitude"<br>
<br>
For approximative numbers, the Romance "centinaio", "centaine", <br>
"centena" have been mentioned, but this seems to be different in the <br>
sense that here the speaker actually commits to a certain (albeit fuzzy) <br>
value.<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Rather than emotive, it’s jocular, though. Wiktionary lists<br>
> it as 'fiktive ganze Zahl‘ [fictive whole number] <br>
> (<a href="https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/dr%C3%B6lf">https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/dr%C3%B6lf</a>
<br>
> <<a href="https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/drölf">https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/drölf</a>>).<br>
> <br>
> Best,<br>
> Bastian<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>> Am 22.02.2022 um 15:27 schrieb Amanda Kann <<a href="mailto:amanda.kann@su.se%20%0b">amanda.kann@su.se
<br>
</a>>> <<a href="mailto:amanda.kann@su.se">mailto:amanda.kann@su.se</a>>>:<br>
>><br>
>> Dear typologists,<br>
>> (Apologies to those who have already seen this query through <br>
>> LinguistList!)<br>
>> I'm looking for corresponding expressions (in any language) to the <br>
>> approximative numeral phrases in the examples below – conventionalized <br>
>> numeral expressions which typically express larger, approximate <br>
>> numeric quantities and encode some kind of emotive function.<br>
>> I'm interested in the composition and value of these numerals, as well <br>
>> as their emphatic and emotive functions – if there are other <br>
>> expressions in the numeral domain in your language(s) that carry a <br>
>> similar illocutionary force, I would love to hear about them as well!<br>
>><br>
>> Swedish [swe]: (from Bloggmix 2013, accessed through <br>
>> <a href="http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp">
http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp</a> <<a href="http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp">http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp</a>>)<br>
>> Det finns nämligen femtioelva sorters myror.<br>
>> 'There are actually many types of ants' (lit. 'There are actually <br>
>> fifty-eleven types of ants')<br>
>><br>
>> French [fra]: (Lavric 2010,<a href="https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008">https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008</a>
<br>
>> <<a href="https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008">https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008</a>>)<br>
>> Il n’y a pas trente-six façons de voir la chose.<br>
>> 'There aren't very many ways of seeing the thing' (lit. 'There aren't <br>
>> thirty-six ways of seeing the thing')<br>
>><br>
>> Danish [dan]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through <br>
>> <a href="http://opus.nlpl.eu">
http://opus.nlpl.eu</a> <<a href="http://opus.nlpl.eu/">http://opus.nlpl.eu/</a>>)<br>
>> Han fortalte mig 117 gange, at han ikke gjorde hende noget.<br>
>> 'He told me a thousand times that he didn't do anything to her' (lit. <br>
>> 'He told me 117 times that he didn't do anything to her')<br>
>><br>
>> English [eng]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through <br>
>> <a href="http://opus.nlpl.eu">
http://opus.nlpl.eu</a> <<a href="http://opus.nlpl.eu/">http://opus.nlpl.eu/</a>>)<br>
>> For the umpteenth time, we are not getting a dog.<br>
>><br>
>> Thank you very much in advance for any tips, examples or comments!<br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>> Amanda Kann<br>
>> *____________________________________*<br>
>> *Amanda Kann*<br>
>> Institutionen för lingvistik | /Department of //Linguistics/<br>
>> *Stockholms universitet | /Stockholm University/*<br>
>> 106 91 Stockholm<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="mailto:_amanda.kann@su.se">_amanda.kann@su.se</a> <<a href="mailto:amanda.kann@su.se">mailto:amanda.kann@su.se</a>>_<br>
>> <a href="http://www.ling.su.se">
www.ling.su.se</a> <<a href="http://www.ling.su.se">http://www.ling.su.se/</a>><br>
>> Personuppgiftsbehandling vid Stockholms universitet <br>
>> <<a href="https://www.su.se/om-webbplats-cookies/personuppgifter">https://www.su.se/om-webbplats-cookies/personuppgifter</a>><br>
>> *____________________________________*<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <br>
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