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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Matthew,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I plead
guilty to not being clear enough with my original query; my
partial excuse is
that things were not sufficiently clear in my mind, and I was
hoping that
giving my tentative thoughts an airing in this group would help
me understand
things better.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Thanks to
you and some of
the other participants in this thread, I think I am now in a
position to offer
a clearer formulation of what I am after.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Definition:
Bilateral Instrumental Verbal Marking</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Bilateral
Instrumental Verbal Marking is a construction exhibiting the
following four features:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(1) A verbal
marking, either morphological or periphrastic (by means of a
separate word
occurring in close nexus with the verb).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(2) The
verbal marking denotes an argument of the verb bearing the
semantic role of
instrument.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(3) The
instrument argument of the verb behaves differently from the
corresponding instrumental
arguments of verbs not bearing Bilateral Instrumental Verbal
Marking; in
particular, it occurs "higher" on a Grammatical Relations
hierarchy
such as Subject > Object > Oblique.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(4) The
argument bearing the semantic role of instrument is also
understood as bearing
a second semantic role with respect to a second verb, that may
be either overt or
understood.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">While features
(1) - (3) are shared with instrumental voice and applicative
constructions, it
is feature (4), expressed by the term "Bilateral", that
distinguishes
the Bilateral Instrumental Verbal Marking construction from
instrumental voice
and applicative constructions.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Feature
(4) accounts for the fact that, as far as I have been able to
ascertain, most
or all of the instances of Bilateral Instrumental Verbal Marking
occur in constructions
of one or more of the following two general types:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(a) Serial-verb-like
constructions (such as the Hatam example in one of Matthew's
earlier messages).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(b) Embedded
clauses (such as the Roon complement clause and relative clause
in one of my
earlier messages).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">However,
the definition provided above sidesteps some of the thorny
issues that came up
in the discussion, or could come up in the future, such as the
grammatical role
of the instrument NP, the relative status of the two verbs in
the serial verb
construction, and in the case of bi-clausal constructions, the
precise nature
of the relationship between the two clauses.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Of course, like
with any other definition, there will be borderline cases. <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>One obvious source for such
borderline cases
will be that in which the "second verb" stipulated in (4) is
covert
and/or semantically bleached. For example, this might be the
case for many serial
verb constructions in which the second verb (often the first in
linear order) has
a general meaning such as 'take' or 'use'.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The
Tzutujil example cited by Mark and discussed further by Bill
might also be such
a borderline case.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Ostensibly
there is
only one verb 'hit'; however, Bill's proposed translation </span>'It's
the
stick that he hit me with' actually introduces a second
semantically vacuous
verb 'is'.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Though I'm not
sure I would
wish to go down this path.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>On
the other
hand, the Marind example, as described by Bruno, doesn't present
any obvious
evidence for such a second verb and second semantic role, and
therefore doesn't
seem to qualify as a case of <span
style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Bilateral
Instrumental Verbal Marking.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A final note on instrumental voice in Tagalog
(as a typical
Philippine language).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Using
English
words for expository simplicity, instrumental voice is typically
presented with
examples such as the following</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(1) INSTR-CUT ng CHILD ng BREAD ang KNIFE</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">'The child cut bread with the knife'</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">where <i>ang</i> marks the subject/topic
indexed by the
instrumental prefix on the verb, and <i>ng</i> the other
non-oblique arguments.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Such
examples clearly fail to satisfy feature
(4) above and therefore do not qualify as<span
style="mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> Bilateral Instrumental Verbal Marking.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>However, in real naturalistic discourse, examples such as
(1) are
infrequent; much more common are examples such as</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2) HAVE INSTR-CUT ng BREAD 1SG</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">'I've have something to cut bread with'</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">where the understood item is both the
instrument of CUT and
also the theme of HAVE. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>And
thereby
satisfying feature (4).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Facts
such as
these seem to suggest that even Tagalog instrumental voice may
actually lie
somewhere in-between a pure voice construction and a <span
style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Bilateral
Instrumental Verbal Marker.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Analogous
observations hold also for other
oblique voices such as locative voice, thereby pointing perhaps
to a more
general notion of Bilateral Verbal Marking of which Bilateral
Instrumental
Verbal Marking is but one particular case.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Thanks to Matthew
and all of you who led me towards a hopefully more perspicuous
definition of
the construction in question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/2022 23:03, Matthew Dryer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:98B295AB-B719-4104-937A-5C05D282F85C@buffalo.edu">
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<p class="MsoNormal">David,<span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Part of the problem is that your original
query did not specify in detail what exactly it is that
characterizes these constructions, what it is that you think
that they share that is crosslinguistically unusual. Your
email only characterized the constructions as similar to
Philippine-type instrumental voice and consulting sources on
some of the non-Austronesian languages you mentioned, what I
found was more like an applicative than a Philippine-type
instrumental voice. Your original email seemed to be asking
for other examples of Philippine-type instrumental voice, but
it is now clear that what you are looking for is a
constellation of features that may be an areal feature of the
Bird's Head and adjacent areas and it is only in your latest
email that it begins to emerge what that constellation of
features is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But I acknowledge that the Hatam
construction and others like it are definitely not
prototypical applicative constructions, precisely because they
involve a type of serial verb construction. From where I am
sitting, what seems unusual about the construction is that it
involves a combination of a serial verb construction with an
applicative construction, without much similarity to
Philippine-type instrumental voice. But if your interest in
finding out if there are other languages with similar
constructions, the issue of whether it is similar to
Philippine-type instrumental voice seems irrelevant.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps if you spelled out more clearly
what the constellation of features is that you see as
characterizing the construction, people might be able identify
other cases. My hunch is that what you are looking for is rare
outside your area if it exists at all.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">David Gil
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:29 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Matthew Dryer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu"><dryer@buffalo.edu></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] query: instrument voice<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Matthew,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
construction that I'm interested in here (which does not seem
to differ significantly across the genealogical boundary
between Austronesian and non-Austronesian) does not seem to be
a prototypical case of any familiar construction — which is
what makes it interesting to me. Much of the discussion has
focused on the differences between it and Philippine
instrumental voice constructions, which I am not denying.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">But
you can hardly say that we're dealing here with a prototypical
applicative either. What's crucial is that in most or all of
the languages under consideration, the instrument NP cannot
occur in post-verbal position, which is where you'd expect it
to be in an applicative construction in an SVO language.
Thus, for the corresponding prefix
<i>k-</i> in Austronesian Biak, van Heuvel (2006:420) writes
that "it seems to be used only when this instrument is
topical" — which is kind of the opposite of how things work in
many familiar applicative constructions. Call it what you
like (topic, subject, whatever), but the grammatical functions
and behaviour associated with the instrument NP are very
different not only from those of the corresponding NPs in
clauses without instrumental verbal marking, but also from
those of instrument NPs in other languages with an
instrumental applicative marker.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As
your Hatam example suggests, there is also an affinity between
the construction in question and serial verb constructions.
Peel off the morphology and what you've got is a
garden-variety Mainland Southeast Asian language SVC
construction along the lines of TAKE STICK HIT SNAKE.
Alternatively, transform your Hatam inflectional forms to
periphrastic and you get the corresponding construction in
isolating Papuan Malay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:31.15pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="42"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">sa<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:37.95pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">ambil<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:33.75pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="45" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">kayu<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:30.0pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="40" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">sa<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:34.3pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="46" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">pake<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:.55in;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="53" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">pukul<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:45.0pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="60" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">ular<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:31.15pt;border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="42" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1SG<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:37.95pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="51"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">take<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:33.75pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="45"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">stick<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:30.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="40"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1SG<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:34.3pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="46"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">use<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:.55in;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="53"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">hit<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:45.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="60"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">snake<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:white">'I hit the snake with a stick'</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">where
<i>pake</i> 'use' is the periphrastic counterpart of the
instrumental verbal prefix in Hatam, Biak, etc. (This
construction is unavailable in other varieties of Malay, which
suggests that it is due to substrate influence from the local
New Guinea languages.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
would conclude that the construction in question bears certain
family resemblances to instrumental voice constructions,
applicatives, and serial verb constructions, but is not a
prototypical instance of any of these. Given its recurrence
in (at least) three genealogically unrelated families of
languages (Austronesian, East Bird's Head, and isolate Hatam),
what this discussion seems to me to be suggesting is that the
construction in question merits a term all to its own, so that
its relationship to other constructions can be productively
discussed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022 21:20, Matthew Dryer wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">David,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Preverbal position in an SVO language
seems to me to be a very weak factor as a subject property.
There are two additional overlapping considerations that
would normally be considered relevant. First, is the noun
phrase in question in the same preverbal position as
subjects? And second, does the S/A lack subject properties
that it normally has.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Without these two additional
considerations, it would seem that one would have to say
that
<i>what</i> in English <i>What is John eating?</i> is
subject-like, since it is a preverbal constituent in an SVO
language. But it does not occur in the same preverbal
position as subjects and the subject does not lack its
normal subject properties. The same could be said about <i>rice</i>
in <i>It is rice that John is eating</i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You ask why some of us are talking about
applicatives in their responses. One reason is that you cite
Hatam, Sougb, Moskona, and Meyah as instances of what you
are characterizing as constructions like Philippine
instrumental voice. But these seem much more like canonical
applicatives and quite unlike Philippine instrumental voice.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the following example from Hatam, for
example,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in
5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Ni-ba</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>tom</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>ni-bi-bui</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>wou.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal">1<span
style="position:relative;top:-1.0pt;mso-text-raise:1.0pt">EXC-use</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal">stick<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal">1EXC-INS-hit<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal">snake<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p style="margin:0in"><span
style="font-family:Times;color:white">We used a stick to
hit the snake.
</span><span style="font-family:Times">(Reesink 1999: 54)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">the fact that <i>tom</i> 'stick'
precedes the verb for 'hit' is presumably best explained in
terms of its being the complement of
<i>ba</i> 'use' and there is no evidence that the A of 'hit'
lacks any normal subject properties. This is very different
from instrumental voice in Philippine languages.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp
<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a>
on behalf of David Gil
<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] query: instrument voice</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I must confess to being a little puzzled at how the
responses to my original query seem to have focused largely
on applicatives. To cite just one example ...<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022 08:31, Martin Haspelmath
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Once we have clear definitions, we can
begin to answer David's question whether languages with
instrumental applicatives only are rare outside of
Austronesian.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>A fair question, but not the one that was asking; I was
asking whether languages with *instrument voice* only are
rare outside of Austronesian. Actually, what I really meant
to ask is whether constructions like those in Roon and other
proximate languages are attested elsewhere in the world;
that is to say, constructions in which a verb hosts an affix
denoting an instrument whose function in the clause looks
more like a subject or topic than like a direct object or
oblique. I used the term "instrument voice" because this
seemed to me to be the most appropriate term, or, to put it
differently, the constructions i am looking at seemed to me
to be more similar to, say, a garden-variety
instrument-voice construction in Tagalog, than anything else
I could think of, including most prototypical applicative
constructions. In response to my query, Mark came through
with the Tzutujil example, and one or two others have
provided potential leads that I will be following up on
soon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>But my choice of terms led to a terminological debate, with
several of you expressing your opinions that the
constructions in question, in Roon and other New Guinea
languages, are instances of applicatives. To which I would
respond with a question: would you also characterize a
Philippine-type instrumental voice construction as an
applicative?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I wouldn't, which is why I phrased the question in the way
that I did. Note that I would still acknowledge the merits
of a sometimes-proposed analysis of Philippine voice in
which, say, the instrumental voice is analyzed
compositionally as consisting of (a) an applicative
"promoting" oblique to direct object; in combination with
(b) a passive "promoting" a direct object to subject. But
under such an analysis, while an applicative construction
*forms part of* the instrument voice construction, the
instrument voice construction as a whole is more than just
an applicative. (As Mark points out, a similar analysis is
clearly called for in the case of Indonesian, in which
passive
<i>di-</i> and applicative <i>-kan</i> frequently
co-occur.) However, in the New Guinea case, there is no
evidence that I am aware of for such a compositional
analysis; the prefixes that express what I was calling
instrumental voice provide no evidence for any kind of
complex internal structure. Indeed, for this reason,
constructions such as those with the Roon
<i>u-</i> prefix seem to me to offer "better" examples of
"instrument voice" than even the Philippine constructions
for which the term was originally coined.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David Gil<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David Gil<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
</pre>
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