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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes although I think the Hopper and Thomason argument would be about the relative animacy of the A and O roles
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of "Spreng, Bettina" <bettina.spreng@usask.ca><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 10:51 am<br>
<b>To: </b>"JOO, Ian [Student]" <ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk>, "lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I think it’s definitely worth considering. Prototypically transitive verbs can be used quite differently.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hit a ball, a tree, anything that maybe isn’t a woman?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Chop wood, cut bread, kiss a woman?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some violent words can be used in the hunting context. In Inuit languages, we often use<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Killing or shooting a polar bear. There is nothing problematic about that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So often, I change genders in examples because they are so stereotyical. So, this goes beyond the indigenous stereotypes but stereotypes in general.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John kissed Mary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mary likes John.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John gives Mary a book.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">With females being receivers, or receptacles, subjects of psych verbs, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It goes beyond the indigenous context but that is a particularly sensitive one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Once you pay attention, it’s quite blatant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Dr. Bettina Spreng</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Assistant Professor, Department of Linguistics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">College of Arts & Sciences | University of Saskatchewan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">P: (306) 966-1440<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Arts Building, Room 911<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">9 Campus Drive, Saskatoon, SK S7N 5A5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>JOO, Ian [Student]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 21, 2022 6:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#9C6500">CAUTION:</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> External to USask. Verify sender and use caution with links and attachments. Forward suspicious emails to
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:phishing@usask.ca"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">phishing@usask.ca</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">Is “hug” and “carry” as transtive as “hit”, though?<br>
According to Hopper and Thompson (1980), one of the factors of transitivity is the affectedness of the patient.<br>
Hugging or carrying someone does not affect them as much as hitting does.<br>
Also “hug” is not so basic a word as “hit” is, which is in the Swadesh List or the Leipzig-Jakarta List.<br>
Of course, hitting someone is a bad thing to do. But I don’t think linguists should avoid certain sentences because they depict something morally bad.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><br>
Regards, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">Ian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-CA">On 22. Mar 2022, 00:54 +0100, Felicity Meakins <<a href="mailto:f.meakins@uq.edu.au">f.meakins@uq.edu.au</a>>, wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi all,</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We also comment on this in our field methods textbook (p. 129) and use a reflection from Torres Strait Islander linguist Al Harvey about this issue to illustrate how it can affect communities:</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">Meakins, F., Green, J., & Turpin, M. (2018).
<i>Understanding linguistic fieldwork</i>. London: Routledge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">“</span><span lang="EN-CA">One of the problems with publishing some of the sentences made up by linguists is that they become instantiations of culture and may perpetuate negative stereotypes about often
already marginalised people. For example, grammars are full of sen- tences exemplifying transitivity using verbs that denote violence. ‘Hit’ is a classic transitive verb, but so is ‘hug’ or ‘carry’. When you construct sentences for elicita- tion, avoid topics
that refer to violence, sex, alcohol, drugs (including smoking), child abuse or neglect, as these may upset people down the track. Also bear in mind that descendants of the speakers may read the grammar in years to come, or may be an audience member in a presentation
using data you collected. Imagine that you are trying to re-construct your language and the only verb in the corpus is ‘hit’!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang="EN-CA">Perpetuating negative stereotypes of communities – Al Harvey</span></b><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">My name is Al Harvey, I am of Saibai Island descent and am currently work- ing on a project to preserve, document and protect the Top Western Torres Strait Island dialect of Kalaw Kawaw Ya (KKY).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">Today KKY, like many other Australian Indigenous languages, is endan- gered. The loss of languages is more than just the loss of spoken word. It has always been explained to me that languages
are a reflection of a peo- ple’s soul and way of living in the world. Speakers and descendants of a language have a role to play in the preservation and maintenance of that language but so too do people who work with those languages, including linguists. It’s
important that linguists are cognisant of the role they play in acting as a facilitator in the preservation of languages. Linguists also need to be aware that language data gathered is presented in a way that reflects the good faith in which it was given.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">I was at a linguistics workshop recently where the presenters offered sen- tences from an Aboriginal language. One of the sentences presented in the targeted language translated into English
as ‘The man hit the woman’. For the purpose of the exercise it seemed to me to be an unnecessary display of a negative stereotype in a forum of predominately non-Indigenous linguists.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">Thinking of language data beyond something to be scientifically analysed and being cognisant that the language you’re working with comes from the soul of a people would surely go some way to
avoiding such unnecessary representations.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-CA">Regards, Felicity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">_________________________________________</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray">Prof Felicity Meakins FASSA | Australian Research Council (ARC) Future Fellow |</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-CA">
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <</span><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>
on behalf of Hagay Schurr <</span><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="mailto:hschurr@gradcenter.cuny.edu"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">hschurr@gradcenter.cuny.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date:</b> Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 4:19 am<br>
<b>To:</b> "</span><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">" <</span><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="elementtoproof" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black">Dear Sebastian, </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="elementtoproof" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="elementtoproof" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black">I'm only aware of the debate around LSA guidelines in the early 2000's, including, among others, Postal's (2003, 187) reply :</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span class="elementtoproof1"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">"it is arbitrary and discriminatory to try policing them only with respect to one or more favored victim groups, the policing
code is necessarily incompatible with the principle of free speech, and, finally, it is in any event not possible to actually codify usage conditions that genuinely pick out all and only the offensive. Given all this, codes like the LSA guidelines are in part
harmful and in part useless." (Postal 2003, 187).</span></span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black">Postal's paper will lead you to some relevant publications that defends policing to some extent.</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span class="elementtoproof1"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Best,</span></span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span class="elementtoproof1"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hagay</span></span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span class="elementtoproof1"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Postal, P. M. (2003). Policing the content of linguistic examples. <i>Language</i>, <i>79</i>(1), 182-188.</span></span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-CA"> <span style="color:black">
Lingtyp <</span><a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><span style="color:black">> on behalf of
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<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 18, 2022 12:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><span style="color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><span style="color:black">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Lingtyp Digest, Vol 90, Issue 21</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Reference for violence (hit, kill) in articles in linguistics<br>
needed (Sebastian Nordhoff)<br>
<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:51:15 +0100<br>
From: Sebastian Nordhoff <<a href="mailto:sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de">sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] Reference for violence (hit, kill) in articles in<br>
linguistics needed<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7a23c27d-4cc4-e57b-37c6-ac5570a6d144@glottotopia.de">7a23c27d-4cc4-e57b-37c6-ac5570a6d144@glottotopia.de</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
I have occasionally been part in discussions where the frequent use of<br>
violent concepts such as 'hit' or 'kill' in linguistics is mentioned and<br>
sometimes criticized.<br>
<br>
I believe there is some research article providing empirical evidence<br>
for linguistic articles being unnecessarily "violent", but I am unable<br>
to locate it. Could the list members help me?<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
PS: I am aware that 'hit' and 'kill' have a number of semantic<br>
properties which make them very suitable for a number of research questions.<br>
<br>
<br>
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End of Lingtyp Digest, Vol 90, Issue 21<br>
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