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    <p>Daniel,</p>
    <p>There actually are plenty of variants of the game (my favourite
      can be viewed here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUEoDYpUyQ">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUEoDYpUyQ</a>). 
      But not knowing enough German or Thai to understand the original
      examples in Ian's query, I was (and remain) puzzled over what
      exactly he is looking for, as none of this seems to have any
      connection with compositionality.  My current best guess is that
      what he is after is variants of the game in which the hand-shapes
      are referred to by dedicated terms as opposed to terms with other
      meanings (such as 'rock, 'paper', etc.)  Perhaps 'dedicated'
      vs.'metonymical' might capture the distinction more appropriately.</p>
    <p>David<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/05/2022 20:07, Daniel Ross wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAm4d-6TGdn7MdTQ3rdFd+v_me-_jj_kTvUYjBH_2AEzLwOpBg@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">There might be a better term, but clearly
        "rock-paper-scissors" is more literal than "ro-sham-bo". The
        meaning is somewhat idiomatic regardless (I think what you're
        asking about, David), but children sometimes make up variants
        with additional or different hand shapes, and so this can be
        somewhat productive and compositional (within the idiomatic
        context as a name for a game). If you asked a child to play a
        variant called "rock-paper-scissors-spaceship" they'd only ask
        you what the hand shape is for spaceship and how it interacts
        with the other shapes (of course these casual variants can make
        the game hopelessly unbalanced, if for example spaceships
        destroys everything else!), but that seems like compositionality
        to me (again, within the context of a name of the game, listing
        the shapes).<br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:58 AM
          Nigel Vincent <<a
            href="mailto:nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dear
              David,</div>
            <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I'm
              glad you raised this. Exactly the same concern had
              occurred to me.</div>
            <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best</div>
            <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Nigel</div>
            <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
              </div>
              <div id="gmail-m_7498950447701737576Signature">
                <div>
                  <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
                    <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
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                        <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
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                              style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
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                                  style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
                                  <div
                                    style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
                                    <div
                                      style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">Professor
                                      Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
                                      Professor Emeritus of General
                                      & Romance Linguistics<br>
                                      The University of Manchester</div>
                                    <div
                                      style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>Linguistics & English
                                        Language<br>
                                        School of Arts, Languages and
                                        Cultures<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>The
                                        University of Manchester</div>
                                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <a
href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a></div>
                                  </div>
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                      </div>
                    </div>
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                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
            <div id="gmail-m_7498950447701737576divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
                style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
                color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <<a
                  href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
                on behalf of David Gil <<a
                  href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>><br>
                <b>Sent:</b> 02 May 2022 6:44 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a
                  href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
                <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Non-compositional words
                for “rock-paper-scissors"</font>
              <div> </div>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p>Dear all,</p>
              <p>I am puzzled by the ongoing use of the term
                "compositionality" in this thread.  Compositionality is
                when two (or more) meaningful expressions are brought
                together, and the meaning of the resulting construction
                is derived from the meanings of the constituent parts. 
                I don't see how this applies here (or am I missing
                something?)<br>
              </p>
              <p>David<br>
              </p>
              <div>On 02/05/2022 19:34, Tim Bodt wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="ltr">Hi Ian,
                  <div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>While in standard Dutch, Flemish and Frisian
                      this game is commonly known by its compositional
                      names (cf.
                      <a
href="https://taalverhalen.be/minionderzoekje/een-open-hand-een-vuist-en-twee-vingers/"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://taalverhalen.be/minionderzoekje/een-open-hand-een-vuist-en-twee-vingers/</a>),
                      there was a similar game played in the Dutch East
                      Indies that was called by the non-compositional
                      name
                      <i>soeten</i> ('to<i> soet</i>', see the first
                      page on <a
href="http://www.indischhistorisch.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Anthonio_kinderspelletjes.pdf"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
http://www.indischhistorisch.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Anthonio_kinderspelletjes.pdf</a>).
                      This name is derived from its Indonesian name
                      <i>suwit - suit </i>or <i>sut </i>(<a
                        href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit</a>,
                      see also, for example,
                      <a
href="https://www.kompasiana.com/widikurniawan/60f979c17aa97822be2a9732/cara-suit-yang-perlahan-punah-semut-gajah-manusia"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.kompasiana.com/widikurniawan/60f979c17aa97822be2a9732/cara-suit-yang-perlahan-punah-semut-gajah-manusia</a>,
                      also
                      <i>gamsit</i>, <a
href="https://warisanbudaya.kemdikbud.go.id/?newdetail&detailCatat=7180"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://warisanbudaya.kemdikbud.go.id/?newdetail&detailCatat=7180</a>)<i>.</i> It
                      is known as
                      <i>pingsut </i>in Javanese (<a
                        href="https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingsut"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingsut</a>)
                      and
                      <i>suten </i>in Sundanese (<a
                        href="https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suten"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suten</a>).
                      Instead of rock, paper (or leaf) and scissors and
                      the whole hand (this game is literally translated
                      as
                      <i>batu, gunting, kertas</i> or <i>suwit jepang</i>
                      'Japanese <i>suwit</i>', <a
                        href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_gunting_kertas"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_gunting_kertas</a>), the game uses
                      elephant, man and ant and three fingers.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>In using animals, I guess it is similar to the
                      Japanese game of <i>mushi-ken</i> (虫拳), which
                      originated in China (<a
                        href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansukumi-ken"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansukumi-ken</a>).</div>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Best, Tim.</div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <div>
                  <div dir="ltr">On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 16:30, JOO, Ian
                    [Student] <<a
                      href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                    <div>
                      <div name="x_messageBodySection">
                        <div dir="auto"><span>Dear all,</span><br>
                          <br>
                          <span style="font-family:"Times New
                            Roman"">I’m making a list of
                            non-compositional words for the
                            rock-paper-scissors game or similar games.</span><br>
                          <span style="font-family:"Times New
                            Roman"">In other words, I’m looking for
                            words for “rock-paper-scissors” that do not
                            consist of words for “rock”, “paper”, and
                            “scissors”, or any other meanings, such as
                            German Schnick Schanck Schnuck, Thai bpao
                            ying choop, etc.</span><br>
                          <span style="font-family:"Times New
                            Roman"">I would much appreciate it if
                            you could share with me any words for this
                            game or its kind that do not consist of
                            meaningful words.</span></div>
                      </div>
                      <div name="x_messageSignatureSection"><br>
                        From Korea,
                        <div dir="auto">Ian</div>
                      </div>
                      <img alt=""
src="https://www.polyu.edu.hk/emaildisclaimer/85A-PolyU_Email_Signature.jpg"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">
                      <p><br>
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                    _______________________________________________<br>
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                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br>
                <fieldset></fieldset>
                <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
              </blockquote>
              <pre cols="72">-- 
David Gil

Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany

Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091

</pre>
            </div>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Lingtyp mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
          <a
            href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil

Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091

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