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Dear David,</div>
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I'm glad you raised this. Exactly the same concern had occurred to me.</div>
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Best</div>
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Nigel</div>
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<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
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<div>Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>The University of Manchester</div>
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https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of David Gil <gil@shh.mpg.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 May 2022 6:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Non-compositional words for “rock-paper-scissors"</font>
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<p>Dear all,</p>
<p>I am puzzled by the ongoing use of the term "compositionality" in this thread. Compositionality is when two (or more) meaningful expressions are brought together, and the meaning of the resulting construction is derived from the meanings of the constituent
parts. I don't see how this applies here (or am I missing something?)<br>
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<p>David<br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 02/05/2022 19:34, Tim Bodt wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi Ian,
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<div>While in standard Dutch, Flemish and Frisian this game is commonly known by its compositional names (cf.
<a href="https://taalverhalen.be/minionderzoekje/een-open-hand-een-vuist-en-twee-vingers/" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://taalverhalen.be/minionderzoekje/een-open-hand-een-vuist-en-twee-vingers/</a>), there was a similar game played in the Dutch East Indies that was called by the non-compositional name
<i>soeten</i> ('to<i> soet</i>', see the first page on <a href="http://www.indischhistorisch.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Anthonio_kinderspelletjes.pdf" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
http://www.indischhistorisch.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Anthonio_kinderspelletjes.pdf</a>). This name is derived from its Indonesian name
<i>suwit - suit </i>or <i>sut </i>(<a href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit</a>, see also, for example,
<a href="https://www.kompasiana.com/widikurniawan/60f979c17aa97822be2a9732/cara-suit-yang-perlahan-punah-semut-gajah-manusia" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.kompasiana.com/widikurniawan/60f979c17aa97822be2a9732/cara-suit-yang-perlahan-punah-semut-gajah-manusia</a>, also
<i>gamsit</i>, <a href="https://warisanbudaya.kemdikbud.go.id/?newdetail&detailCatat=7180">
https://warisanbudaya.kemdikbud.go.id/?newdetail&detailCatat=7180</a>)<i>.</i> It is known as
<i>pingsut </i>in Javanese (<a href="https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingsut" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingsut</a>) and
<i>suten </i>in Sundanese (<a href="https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suten" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suten</a>). Instead of rock, paper (or leaf) and scissors and the whole hand (this game is literally translated as
<i>batu, gunting, kertas</i> or <i>suwit jepang</i> 'Japanese <i>suwit</i>', <a href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_gunting_kertas" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_gunting_kertas</a>), the game uses elephant, man and ant and three fingers.</div>
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<div>In using animals, I guess it is similar to the Japanese game of <i>mushi-ken</i> (虫拳), which originated in China (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansukumi-ken" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansukumi-ken</a>).</div>
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<div>Best, Tim.</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 16:30, JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="auto"><span style="">Dear all,</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">I’m making a list of non-compositional words for the rock-paper-scissors game or similar games.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">In other words, I’m looking for words for “rock-paper-scissors” that do not consist of words for “rock”, “paper”, and “scissors”, or any other meanings, such as German Schnick Schanck Schnuck, Thai bpao ying choop,
etc.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">I would much appreciate it if you could share with me any words for this game or its kind that do not consist of meaningful words.</span></div>
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<div name="x_messageSignatureSection"><br>
>From Korea,
<div dir="auto">Ian</div>
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<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
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