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I also discuss the relation between analyzability (with due acknowledgement of Langacker) and compositionality in a diachronic context in my chapter 'Compositionality and change' in The Routledge Handbook of Historical Linguistics, eds Claire Bowern and Bethwyn
Evans, 2015, pp 103-123.</div>
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Nigel</div>
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<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
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<div>Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>The University of Manchester</div>
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https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Siva Kalyan <sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 May 2022 11:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> JOO, Ian [Student] <ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk><br>
<b>Cc:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Non-compositional words for “rock-paper-scissors"</font>
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<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">I was also going to suggest “analyzability” instead of “compositionality”.
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<div class="">The following paper contains a lucid explanation of the distinction between the two:</div>
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<div class="x_csl-bib-body" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div class="x_csl-entry">Langacker, R. W. (1982). Space Grammar, Analysability, and the English Passive. <i class="">Language</i>, <i class="">58</i>(1), 22–80. <a href="https://doi.org/10.2307/413531" class="" style="">https://doi.org/10.2307/413531</a></div>
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<div>Siva</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 4 May 2022, at 4:42 pm, JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" class="">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">Dear all,<br class="">
<br class="">
thank you all for your replies which helps me building my data of RPS terms in different languages.<br class="">
I apologize for the confusion I’ve caused with the term “compositionality”. Perhaps the better term would have been “analyzability”, i.e. whether the term is analyzable into smaller meaningful units (as in the case of the English word “rock paper scissors”)
or not (as in the case of Korean mwuk cci ppa). One could say that mwuk cci ppa is also analyzable as “mwuk”, “cci”, and “ppa”, as these indicate the specific handshapes of this game, but I was looking for such cases where the word does not mean anything other
than the game itself.</div>
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Regards,
<div dir="auto" class="">Ian</div>
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On 3 May 2022, 9:13 PM +0900, Nate Sims <<a href="mailto:nsims@ucsb.edu" class="">nsims@ucsb.edu</a>>, wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="" style="border-left-color:grey; border-left-width:thin; border-left-style:solid; margin:5px; padding-left:10px">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi all,
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">The Chinese equivalent is 石头-剪刀-布, "rock-scissor-cloth". In Sichuanese Mandarin, the playground name for this game is [sɨ21.tɕʰɚ45] the first syllable is 'rock' but the second syllable is not otherwise meaningful (at least not in my
understanding). </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">So I guess the Sichuanese name for the game would be semi-compositional? I take compositional here to mean etymologically transparent. </div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">Nate </div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 8:03 PM Daniel Ross <<a href="mailto:djross3@gmail.com" class="">djross3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Yes, that's the definition I'm assuming. "Rock-paper-scissors" describes a game involving "rocks", "papers" and "scissors" (metaphorically speaking, as hand shapes).</div>
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<div class="">As we've discussed, this usage is semi-productive, and productivity requires some degree of compositionality: the parts somehow contribute to the meaning. It's a specific usage context, and it's metonymy as you noted, but there's still some degree
of internal semantic structure (i.e. compositionality).</div>
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<div class="">I agree with you that there may be a better term for Ian to use to frame this, but I understood what he meant, and even in a technical sense there's some degree of compositionality that is relevant here, at least for the productive cases. (I don't
know if that applies to other languages.)<br class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br class="">
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<p class="" style="margin-top:12px; margin-bottom:12px">Daniel,<br class="">
</p>
<p class="" style="margin-top:12px; margin-bottom:12px">Sorry to nitpick (all with the best of intentions), but I still don't understand your usage of the term "compositional" below:</p>
<div class="">On 02/05/2022 20:40, Daniel Ross wrote:<br class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Haha, yes, that's a great example, David, thanks for reminding me of that one.</div>
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<div class="">Yes, I wonder also about the (possible) meanings of the components in the other languages. It is interesting, though, that the terms in English have, at least as far as I am aware, no other meaning at all. (It's interesting that in Thai the third
is "choop", and, not knowing Thai, I'm going to guess that one might be scissors, assuming individual components can be identified. I wonder if it's a general ideophone, in which case then it would also arguably be compositional to some degree.)<br class="">
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<p class="" style="margin-top:12px; margin-bottom:12px">Could you, or anybody else, explain what "compositional" means in the above sentence. For me, "compositionality" is when the meaning of a construction is derived from the meaning of its constituent parts.
I'm pretty sure that this is by far the most common meaning of the term in semantics and related fields, as reflected in numerous definitions in various chapters of the OUP handbook (below). Are there other usages of the term that I am ignorant of?</p>
<p class="" style="margin-top:12px; margin-bottom:12px">David</p>
<p class="" style="margin-top:12px; margin-bottom:12px"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Werning, M., W. Hinzen and E. Machery eds., (2012)<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">The Oxford Handbook of Compositionality</i>, Oxford University Press,
Oxford.</span></p>
<pre cols="72" class="">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
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