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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear all – Like Riccardo, I too was reminded by Jesus’ examples of the focus particle uses of
<i>hasta</i>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In the simplest case, this requires an NP complement in focus, as in
<i>Hasta Lourdes vino</i> ‘Even Lourdes came.’ This locates the referent on a scale compared to other referents involved in the same event, and the speaker presents the involvement of the referent at issue as surprising or extreme.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In Jesus’ examples, it’s instead the event itself that is presented as an extreme point on a scale. This doesn’t inherently require a complementizer (cf. English _<i>Lourdes even came to the party</i>_), but
since <i>hasta que</i> already exists independently as a conjunction, we may be looking at a case of dual/parallel motivation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The connection between the focus particle meaning and the temporal conjunction meaning is of course one of heterosemy: the temporal conjunction sense defines an upper bound on a scale; the two senses are clearly
related.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lastly, a dual motivation analysis doesn’t replace Jesus’ insubordination analysis, but incorporates and potentially motivates it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best -- Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
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(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Riccardo Giomi <rgiomi@campus.ul.pt><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 3:31 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu><br>
<b>Cc: </b>lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Insubordinate 'until' clauses<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Jesús,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">My Spanish is very basic, but a parallel construction exists in Portuguese (<i>até (que)</i>), which I do speak quite well, so maybe I can share a thought about the latter language which may also apply to
Spanish.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In Portuguese, and I believe also in Spanish,
<i>até/hasta </i>does not only mean <i>until </i>but also <i>even</i>. My gut feeling is that it is this *adverbial* meaning which is relevant to the (Portuguese) construction, so (the Portuguese equivalents of) your examples would quite straightforwardly translate
as <i>You <u>even</u> bother to drop by / They <u>even</u> won a game </i>and would therefore
<i>not</i> be insubordinate clauses.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If this is so, the presence of
<i>que</i> would <i>prima facie </i>appear unexpected, but I do recognize this pattern from other adverbs like
<i>quase</i>, which, colloquially, also occur in main clauses with an *unexpected* complementizer -- i.e. they seem to be reinterpreted by some speakers as sort-of predicates -- e.g. Pt.
<i>Este gato <u>quase (que)</u> parece um cão</i>, 'This cat almost looks like a dog', parallel to
<i>Este gato <u>até (que)</u></i> <i>parece um cão</i>, 'This cat even looks like a dog'.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Whether this hypothesis also makes sense for the Austronesian languages mentioned by David (i.e. whether 'until'/'even' polysemy also exists in those languages) I don't know, but it is somewhat intriguing
in this sense that David also speaks of <i>sampe </i>in the relevant construction as having an "intensifying meaning" (which is how some people would refer to the function of
<i>even</i>) and of the rest of the utterance as "the complement" of the latter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hope this helps, otherwise my apologies!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Riccardo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <<a href="mailto:olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu">olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu</a>> escreveu no dia segunda, 26/09/2022 à(s) 21:02:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">I hope this email finds you well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">I was wondering if there are any works that have explored insubordinate 'until' clauses. I am interested in examples like the following Spanish constructions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">1. ¡<b>Hasta que</b> te dignas a pasar por aquí!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">2. !Vaya,
<b>hasta que</b> ganaron un juego, ya era hora!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">In the languages I have identified these constructions, 'until' clauses are used for expressing 'surprise' or for 'complaining'.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Any readings will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#212121">Jesús Olguín Martínez</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#212121">Ph.D, Dept. of Linguistics</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#212121">University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jesusolguinmartinez.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2len8OjCPh6HfiREXrVK56ZMgLrXDUolQdO1G-cG9z2DDl4XM5ZvueVqs&data=05%7C01%7Cjb77%40buffalo.edu%7Cc403a615ddf543a5819908daa05a061f%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C637998606967684983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RyoL4qiaijzXvLRWy%2B1Zs%2Bb6tZydtF%2BRrkjwFkzYBcE%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">Home
- Jesús Olguín (jesusolguinmartinez.com)</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Dissertation:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Olguín Martínez, Jesús. 2022.
<i>Temporal adverbial clauses in the languages of the world: Clause-linking strategies</i>. Ph.D. dissertation, University of California, Santa Barbara. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Recent publications:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Olguín Martínez, Jesús. 2022. Contact-induced language contact: The case of Mixtec adverbial clauses.
<i>Journal of Language Contact. Evolution of Languages, Contact and Discourse</i> 15. 1-70.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Olguín Martínez, Jesús & Nicholas Lester. 2021. A quantitative analysis of counterfactual conditionals in the world’s languages.
<i>Italian Journal of Linguistics 33</i>. 147-182.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_1965654765983254971_SignatureSanitizer"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">Olguín Martínez, Jesús. 2021.
</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">‘As if’ constructions in world-wide perspective.
<i>Journal Linguistic typology at the crossroads</i> 1. 2-33.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Riccardo Giomi, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">University of Liège<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Département de langues modernes : linguistique, littérature et traduction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Research group <i>Linguistique contrastive et typologie des langues</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">F.R.S.-FNRS Postdoctoral fellow (CR - FC 43095)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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