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<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Dear Björn, </span></div>
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<div><span class="ContentPasted2"><span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span>That is a very good point. Even though I would, tentatively and as someone who doesn't
know very much about pragmatics, suggest that there might be a difference between "true" sequentiality, marking sequence of events in real time, and "discursive" sequentiality, used to "link up a verbal (re)action with what has been the topic of the verbal
exchange", as you put it. </span></div>
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<span class="ContentPasted0 ContentPasted1">The reason I mentioned the Macedonian aorist as being able to refer to both past and future was the following passage from Ricardo's exchange with his student: "when [the aorist is] used with a future meaning, it
generally has the implication of something being 'imminent', like it is a guaranteed and unavoidable event (or a strong promise or threat)". </span>
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As for Russian, I didn't want to say that the present perfective could have a past interpretation. What I had in mind was the Russian perfective as such, irrespective of tense marking, because it typically has past-time reference with past tense morphology
and future-time reference with present tense morphology. The fact that the distinction between past and future reference is conditioned by additional tense marking does not contradict my definition of non-present items - in my initial inquiry, I explicitly
said that the choice between past and future interpretations may be conditioned by grammatical context (which, I strongly assume, is also the case for most temporal adverbs mentioned in this thread). Does that make sense?</div>
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Best,</div>
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Tom</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Wiemer, Bjoern <wiemerb@uni-mainz.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 7, 2022 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tom Koss <Tom.Koss@uantwerpen.be><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lingtyp] R: Non-present lexemes</font>
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<span style="">Lieber Tom,</span></p>
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<span style="">ich wäre sehr froh, wenn wir zu diesem Thema weiter im engeren Kontakt bleiben könnten. Ich glaube, dieses Thema ist geprägt von einigen Mißverständnissen in der „mainstream“-Literatur, so daß es sehr wichtig scheint, ganz genau festzulegen,
was man mit „present“, „temporal reference“ u.a. Dingen meint. Sehr kurz gesagt: die Futurfunktion des PFV.PRS ergibt sich im Slavischen als spezieller Bereich von „Nonpast-Irrealis“; was natürlich voraussetzt, daß man auch „Irrealis“ gut eingrenzt…</span></p>
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<span style=""> </span></p>
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<span style="">Im Anhang noch ein „recent paper“ meinerseits. Ist vielleicht nicht ganz unnütz.</span></p>
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<span style="">Mit besten Grüßen,</span></p>
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<span style="">Björn.</span></p>
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<span style=""> </span></p>
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<b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>
Tom Koss<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 7, 2022 11:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Lingtyp list <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] R: Non-present lexemes</p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">Dear all, </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">many, many thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate it. I hope you forgive me that I cannot respond to every contributor personally. </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">A few summarizing observations: this phenomenon seems to be much more widespread than I would have assumed, especially in Indo-European and
Uralic languages. Also, non-present semantics seems to be associated mostly with adverbs and particles, while verbal paradigms referring to the non-present are much rarer, the only examples for the latter being the recency/remoteness markers of Piraha, the
Macedonian aorist and the perfective aspect in Russian. </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">Within the group of adverbs, I could make out three different types with more or less equal frequencies: adverbs indicating a short relative
distance from the present ('recent past and near future'), adverbs indicating a great relative distance from the present ('remote past and remote future'), and adverbs indicating an absolute, in most cases intermediate distance from the present ('yesterday
and tomorrow', or even 'day before yesterday and day after tomorrow'). For some adverbs, one of the two temporal interpretations (past or future) is more typical or considered to be ‘the correct one’ by prescriptivists.
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">The fact that any clausal connective encoding some kind of sequentiality can, by definition, only refer to the non-present is something I hadn’t
thought about, so thanks for drawing my attention to it. I maybe should have added to my definition that I am mainly looking for non-present semantics within simple clauses.
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">Many thanks again! Please feel free to provide me with further examples in case something else comes to your mind.
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">All best,</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm; background:white">Tom</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-auth="NotApplicable">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Raffaele Simone <<a href="mailto:raffaele.simone@uniroma3.it" data-auth="NotApplicable">raffaele.simone@uniroma3.it</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 4, 2022 5:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" data-auth="NotApplicable">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>;
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-auth="NotApplicable">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-auth="NotApplicable">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lingtyp] R: Non-present lexemes</span> </p>
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<b><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#9C6500">CAUTION:</span></b><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender
and know the content is safe.</span></p>
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<span lang="IT"> </span></p>
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:14.0pt">Dear friends,</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">the Italian adverb<i> ora</i> “now” means both “quite recently in the past” and “shortly”.</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<li class="x_xmsolistparagraph" style="margin:0cm; font-size:14pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Ne abbiamo parlato ora</span><span lang="IT"></span></li></ol>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">We talked about it an instant ago</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<li class="x_xmsolistparagraph" style="margin:0cm; font-size:14pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Ne parleremo ora</span><span lang="IT"></span></li></ol>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">We shall talk about it in a moment</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Best,</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Raffaele</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">==============</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Emeritus Professor, Università Roma Tre</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Hon C Lund University</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Membre de l'Académie Royale de Belgique</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Chevalier de l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres de France</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Accademico (corrispondente) della Crusca</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Prix de l'Institut de France-Fondation Bonnefous 2022</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">===============</span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Attività e pubblicazioni // Activity and publications
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<span lang="IT" style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><span lang="IT"></span></p>
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<b><span lang="IT">Da:</span></b><span lang="IT"> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-auth="NotApplicable">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
<b>Per conto di </b>David Gil<br>
<b>Inviato:</b> venerdì 2 dicembre 2022 20:07<br>
<b>A:</b> <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-auth="NotApplicable">
lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Non-present lexemes</span></p>
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<span lang="IT"> </span></p>
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<span lang="IT">Dear all,</span></p>
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<span lang="IT">In English, 'this evening', uttered at around 3 or 4 am, can, with a bit of effort, be understood as referring to either the previous evening or the following evening, depending on context, but not to the present time.</span></p>
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<span lang="IT">In Hebrew, a similar but less marginal (ie. much more common) pattern is evident with
<i>halayla</i> (DEF:night), which, when uttered during daytime, can refer to either the preceding night ('last night') or the following night ('tonight'), but obviously not to the present.</span></p>
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<span lang="IT">The generalization seems to be that English <i>this </i>/ Hebrew <i>
ha=</i> plus part-of-day expression refers to the nearest appropriate part of day to the time of speech, with no inherent specification of relative (past, present or future) time. (With an added complication for English, which, instead of
<i>#this night</i>, has either <i>last night</i> or <i>tonight </i>for past and future respectively.)</span></p>
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<span lang="IT">David</span></p>
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<span lang="IT"> </span></p>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">-- </span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">David Gil</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT"> </span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Senior Scientist (Associate)</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT"> </span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" data-auth="NotApplicable">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT">Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302</span></pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:10pt; font-family:"Courier New""><span lang="IT"> </span></pre>
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