<div dir="ltr">A point of clarification seems needed. "Weird" societies refers to the notion that Joseph Henrich's popularized: <b>W</b>estern, <b>E</b>ducated, <b>I</b>ndustrialized, <b>R</b>ich, <b>D</b>emocratic humans are overrepresented in psychological (and linguistic) studies but their cultures are not representative of the full range of human traits.<div>Claire</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 8:35 AM Johanna Mattissen <<a href="mailto:Johanna.Mattissen@uni-koeln.de">Johanna.Mattissen@uni-koeln.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Dear David,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>multiple embedding makes me think not
of a song, but of bonmots which are intended as mockeries of the
German Satzklammer.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One is attributed to Wolf Schneider:<br>
<p style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:100%;margin-bottom:0cm" align="left">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Denken
Sie, wie schön der Krieger, der die Botschaft, die den Sieg,
den die
Athener bei Marathon, obwohl sie in der Minderheit waren,
nach Athen,
das in großer Sorge, ob es die Perser nicht zerstören
würden,
schwebte, erfochten hatten, verkündete, brachte, starb!</font></font></p>
<p style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:100%;margin-bottom:0cm" align="left"><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Roughly (without the Satzklammer)<br>
</font></font></p>
<p style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:100%;margin-bottom:0cm" align="left"><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Just imagine, in which great way the warrior
died who brought the message that announced the victory that
Athens achieved at Marathon although they were in the
minority, </font></font><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">to
Athens that was in great worries that the Persians could
destroy the city.<br>
</font></font></font></font></p>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">
</font></div>
<div><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>The other one (unknown source) is: <br>
</div>
<div>
<p style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:100%;margin-bottom:0cm" align="left">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Der
Grenzpfahl, der bei der Gemeinde, in der das Gefängnis, in
dem seit
gestern der gesuchte Einbrecher sitzt, liegt, steht, ist
umgefallen. <br>
</font></font></p>
<p style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:100%;margin-bottom:0cm" align="left"><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">The boundary marker has fallen over that is
near the town where the prison is in which the wanted
burglar sits (with the predicates 'sits, lies, stands, has
fallen over' accumulated in final position).<br>
</font></font>
</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course, you can easily invent
further ones:<br>
</div>
<div>Er fuhr, nachdem er zum Abschied seine
Frau, die ihn an das wichtige Manuskript, das noch auf dem
Schreibtisch, auf dem große Unordnung, die er selbst zu
verantworten hatte, herrschte, lag, erinnert hatte, geküsst hatte,
ab.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(He hit the road after kissing his wife
farewell who had reminded him to take the important manuscript
with him that had still been lying on his desk amidst a great
disorder for which he himself was responsible.)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All grammatical, but you get entangled
in the end. Enjoy!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div> Johanna<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p>******************</p>
<address>Dr. Johanna Mattissen</address>
<address>European Legal Linguistics</address>
<address>University of Cologne</address>
<address><a href="http://www.erl.uni-koeln.de" target="_blank">www.erl.uni-koeln.de</a><br>
<br>
</address>
<address>Zeitschrift für Europäische Rechtslinguistik<br>
</address>
<address>(Journal for European Legal Linguistics)<br>
<a href="https://journals.ub.uni-koeln.de/index.php/zerl" target="_blank">https://journals.ub.uni-koeln.de/index.php/zerl</a>
</address>
<div><br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Am 12.02.2023 um 08:13 schrieb David
Gil:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Dear all,</p>
<p>A cumulative song is one in which each unit, or stanza,
introduces an additional layer of syntactic embedding, such as
the following ...</p>
<dl>
<dd>This is the house that Jack built.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd>This is the malt that lay in the house that Jack built.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd>This is the rat that ate the malt</dd>
<dd>That lay in the house that Jack built.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd>This is the cat</dd>
<dd>That killed the rat that ate the malt</dd>
<dd>That lay in the house that Jack built.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd>This is the dog that worried the cat</dd>
<dd>That killed the rat that ate the malt</dd>
<dd>That lay in the house that Jack built.</dd>
</dl>
<p>... and so forth. Perhaps the earliest example of a cumulative
song is the Jewish Aramaic hymn <i>Had Gadya</i>.</p>
<p>My query: Is anybody familiar with examples of cumulative songs
from other non-WEIRD cultures and languages. While my main
interest is in "indigenous" attestations, I would also be
interested in successful adaptations and translations of western
cumulative songs into other languages.</p>
<p>(Background to the query: I am interested in exploring
variation in the propensity of different languages to make use
of syntactic embedding. My focus is on languages such as
Malay/Indonesian, which have various tools to construct embedded
clauses but generally choose not to make use of them in natural
discourse. I would like to test the hypothesis that such
cumulative songs are absent or otherwise less successful in such
languages.)</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>David<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302
</pre>
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