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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear David – Fwiw, the <i>Cinco cacao</i> story does involve a form of syntactic recursion, though whether it involves recursive
<i>embedding</i> is another matter. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">With every new character, the old woman recounts the growing backstory as rationale for their appointed mission. This results in a chain of causal clauses. At its peak, the chain comprises nine causal clauses:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">‘Deer, go kick me the old cow, because the old cow, she doesn’t want to kick me the old mule, because the old mule, she doesn’t want to kick me the old cow, because the old cow, she doesn’t want to drink water,
because the water, it doesn’t want to put out the fire, because the fire, it doesn’t want to burn the wood for me, because the wood, it doesn’t want to hit me the dog, because the dog, it doesn’t want to bite me the cat, because the cat, it doesn’t want to
catch me the mouse, because the mouse, it stole five cacao from me.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">However, I do not consider these clauses to be embedded. Briefly, the evidence is that the sequence involves lots of overtly marked topicalizations, represented as left-dislocations in the translation above.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">HTH! -- Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
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</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
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There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="RU" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of David Gil <gil@shh.mpg.de><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 13, 2023 at 8:14 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] query: cumulative songs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks for all the nice examples of cumulative songs, and do please keep them coming in.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have already learned an important thing from the responses so far. While cumulative songs and stories seem to be widespread around the world, they kind of recursive syntactic embedding accompanying such cumulation that is found in the likes of "House
that Jack Built" and "Had Gadya", seems to have a much narrower distribution, and so far no examples have come to light from other "non-WEIRD" parts of the world. Are there really no such cases from elsewhere?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I would like to be able to conclude that such syntactic recursion is a characteristic feature of WEIRD languages and cultures, but am sticking my neck out in order to invite counterexamples ...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 12/02/2023 16:13, David Gil wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A cumulative song is one in which each unit, or stanza, introduces an additional layer of syntactic embedding, such as the following ...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is the house that Jack built.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is the malt that lay in the house that Jack built.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is the rat that ate the malt
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That lay in the house that Jack built.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is the cat
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That killed the rat that ate the malt
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That lay in the house that Jack built.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is the dog that worried the cat
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That killed the rat that ate the malt
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">That lay in the house that Jack built.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>... and so forth. Perhaps the earliest example of a cumulative song is the Jewish Aramaic hymn
<i>Had Gadya</i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>My query: Is anybody familiar with examples of cumulative songs from other non-WEIRD cultures and languages. While my main interest is in "indigenous" attestations, I would also be interested in successful adaptations and translations of western cumulative
songs into other languages.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(Background to the query: I am interested in exploring variation in the propensity of different languages to make use of syntactic embedding. My focus is on languages such as Malay/Indonesian, which have various tools to construct embedded clauses but generally
choose not to make use of them in natural discourse. I would like to test the hypothesis that such cumulative songs are absent or otherwise less successful in such languages.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David Gil<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David Gil<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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