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<p class="MsoNormal">Caro Rafaelle<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Many Australian Aboriginal languages use a combination of an interrogative noun or pronoun plus a marker (affix or particle), typically indicating that the speaker is ignorant of the identity of the referent (what Anna Wierzbicka calls
the ‘ignorative’), for this kind of function. For example, Diyari (South Australia) has:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">minha-ya what-IGNOR ‘whatchamacallit’ or ‘thingamyjig’ or ‘something or other’ (used for non-humans)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">waranha-ya who-IGNOR ‘what’shisname’<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note that the first of these can be causativised to created a transitive verb root:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">minha-ya-nganka- what-IGNOR-CAUS ‘to do something or other’<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For more details and examples see sections 3.2.7, 3.3.3 in the latest version of my Diyari grammar at
<a href="http://www.peterkaustin.com/docs/Austin_2021_Diyari_grammar.pdf">http://www.peterkaustin.com/docs/Austin_2021_Diyari_grammar.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For Jiwarli and other Mantharta languages (Western Australia) the relevant forms consist of the interrogative plus the particle ngulha ‘IGNORative’, as in:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">nhaanha ngulha what IGNOR ‘something or other’<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ngana ngulha who IGNOR ‘someone or other’<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">wantharta ngulha when IGNOR ‘sometime or other’<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">wanthala ngulha where IGNOR ‘somewhere or other’<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note that for English the term ‘dude’ is used in American English (and by hipsters elsewhere) while in UK and Australia ‘bloke’ or ‘fellow’ or ‘chap’ would be more regularly used. (e.g. this bloke came in and was well out of order).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Raffaele Simone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 March 2023 18:08<br>
<b>To:</b> LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lingtyp] Truc, machin and friends<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Dear friends and colleagues,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">I am preparing a paper on that group of general-generic words that are used to designate entities whose name you do not know or do not remember, or whose name you do not want to remember or that,
simply, have no name in a language. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">I’m referring to “nouns” like French "truc" and "machin", Italian "coso", "arnese", "aggeggio", or, for people, Italian "tizio", "tipo", Spanish "tío", “fulano”, English "dude" etc. They form
apparently a special word class and implement a particular way of designating.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">The situation in the European languages I am familiar with seems very fragmented and discontinuous: some languages do have sets of dedicated or semidedicated words for that function, but most
don’t, as far as I see.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Does any of you have examples from other languages and, if any, bibliographic references?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt">Raffaele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">==============<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Emeritus Professor, Università Roma Tre<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Hon C Lund University<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Membre de l'Académie Royale de Belgique<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Chevalier de l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres de France<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Accademico (corrispondente) della Crusca<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Prix de l'Institut de France-Fondation Bonnefous 2022<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">===============<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:IT">Attività e pubblicazioni // Activity and publications
<a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Funiroma3.academia.edu%2FRaffaeleSimone&data=05%7C01%7Cpa2%40mysoas.onmicrosoft.com%7Ceb65325767024b303fb608db2075836d%7C674dd0a1ae6242c7a39f69ee199537a8%7C0%7C0%7C638139461469053559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Hr%2Fj57IQ4c5gLB56i5X7FI8aIZgjzTBFFkLFN1SQP4E%3D&reserved=0">
<span style="color:blue">http://uniroma3.academia.edu/RaffaeleSimone</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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