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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 8 May 2023, at 4:35 PM, Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Dear colleagues,</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">as a non-specialist in these matters, I have always been struggling with the distinction between what Lyons 1977 (<i>Semantics</i>) calls second-order and third-order entities. They are also called situations (a.k.a. events or states of affairs) and thoughts (or propositions), resp. A complement clause may designate one or the other. For instance, the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>that</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>clause in ex. 1 designates a situation, the one of ex. 2 designates a thought (or at any rate, a third-order entity).</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">1) Linda saw that John arrived.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">2) Linda said that John arrived.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">In some cases, English grammar distinguishes these notions. For instance, the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>that</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>clause of ex. 1, but not the one of ex. 2, may be replaced by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>John’s arrival</i>.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Besides such relatively clear cases, there are less clear ones.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">3) Linda remembered reading the book.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">4) Linda remembered to read the book.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Replacement by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>perusal</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>seems to show (unless my English fails me) that the complement clause of ex. 3 designates a situation while the one of ex. 4 designates a thought. If so, the superordinate predicate would not always determine the type of dependent clause.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Here is my question: Does anyone know of a generally applicable criterion or even a language-independent test frame which enables me to determine whether a given dependent clause designates a second-order or a third-order entity? Or are there contexts which are indeterminate in principle or where the distinction does not apply? I would be very grateful for advice.</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Yours as always,</p><p style="line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0cm; background: none; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Christian</p><div class="moz-signature" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><p style="line-height: 18.630001px; margin-bottom: 0.25cm; background: none; font-size: 16.200001px;">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>Rudolfstr. 4<br>99092 Erfurt<br><span style="font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: small-caps; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;">Deutschland</span></p><table style="font-size: 14.4px;"><tbody><tr><td>Tel.:</td><td>+49/361/2113417</td></tr><tr><td>E-Post:</td><td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a></td></tr><tr><td>Web:</td><td><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a></td></tr></tbody></table></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Lingtyp mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>