<div dir="ltr"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">You can request that someone use the V-form (vous, Sie, <br>
Usted) when addressing you, and it is universally accepted that they <br>
have to comply.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is interesting. The other way around is clearly not true (in my Spanish at least).</div><div>Has this been studied/do you have a reference?</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El mié, 10 may 2023 a las 17:08, Sebastian Nordhoff (<<a href="mailto:sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de">sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de</a>>) escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 5/10/23 16:28, PONSONNET Maia wrote:<br>
> Hello,<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I don't have strong view on pronouns and try my best to not hurt people <br>
> when I communicate with them, including trying to match their preferred <br>
> pronouns if I can.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> However, Juergen's parallel raises the question of whether one has the <br>
> same "ownership" relationship to pronouns as they have to their personal <br>
> name.<br>
<br>
an interesting aspect is that "ownership" of 2nd person pronouns is not <br>
contested. You can request that someone use the V-form (vous, Sie, <br>
Usted) when addressing you, and it is universally accepted that they <br>
have to comply.<br>
<br>
The same is currently not true about 3rd person pronouns.<br>
<br>
There might be some "hierarchy of rudeness" between using a dispreferred <br>
2nd person pronoun, a dispreferred 3rd person pronoun and a dispreferred <br>
(nick)name.<br>
<br>
The 3rd person part of such a hierarchy probably needs to be split up. <br>
In my perception, it is ruder to say "Noam, she" than "any researcher <br>
who publishes his research", but I am not aware of any research backing <br>
this claim.<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> <br>
> Ultimately, I believe this raises important and interesting questions <br>
> about our relationship to language in general?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Cheers and kind regards to all,<br>
> <br>
> Maïa (which is actually not the same as Maia, but I usually don't <br>
> protest, because these French decorations are really tricky to produce <br>
> on these empoverished qwerty keyboards)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Maïa Ponsonnet<br>
> <br>
> Chargée de Recherche HDR @ CNRS Dynamique Du Langage<br>
> <br>
> 14, avenue Berthelot, 69007 Lyon, FRANCE -- +33 4 72 72 65 46<br>
> <br>
> Adjunct @ University of Western Australia<br>
> <br>
> + + + + +<br>
> <br>
> Co-rédactrice en chef du /Journal de la Société des Océanistes/<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://journals.openedition.org/jso/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://journals.openedition.org/jso/</a> <br>
> <<a href="https://journals.openedition.org/jso/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://journals.openedition.org/jso/</a>><br>
> <br>
> /<br>
> /<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *De :* Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> de la part de <br>
> Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
> *Envoyé :* mercredi 10 mai 2023 16:18<br>
> *À :* Christian Lehmann; <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
> *Objet :* [Lingtyp] Pronouns, politeness, political correctness<br>
> <br>
> Dear Christian – I should preface this by saying that I don’t know what <br>
> caused your request for people to refrain from asking to be addressed <br>
> with their pronouns of choice. It’s very possible that I’m once again <br>
> missing some earlier parts of this thread. I tried to recover all parts <br>
> of it that had ended up in my spam folder, but it is entirely possible <br>
> that I missed something and as result am misunderstanding your request.<br>
> <br>
> With that said:<br>
> <br>
> You can choose to look upon this matter as an instance of political <br>
> correctness, but might I suggest that there is another aspect to it: <br>
> simple politeness.<br>
> <br>
> Suppose somebody insists in calling/addressing you (as) /Chris/. You <br>
> find this obnoxious and ask them to stop. They ignore you and continue <br>
> calling you /Chris/.<br>
> <br>
> Would you not agree that this behavior is simply rude? I definitely would.<br>
> <br>
> Now the policy you are suggesting, if I understand correctly, would <br>
> amount to asking people to refrain from even publicly objecting to being <br>
> addressed in a rude manner. So anybody who feels offended by how they <br>
> are being addressed or referred to should just either “suck it up” or <br>
> leave this board?<br>
> <br>
> Apparently, you believe that it is more constructive to not call out <br>
> rude behavior and (allow people to) quietly suffer it.<br>
> <br>
> I on the other hand feel that it would be more constructive if everybody <br>
> tried to refrain from being rude. If people are apparently being rude <br>
> without realizing it, respectfully point it out to them. And if they <br>
> still insist in their rude behavior even after it has been pointed out <br>
> to them, call them out for it.<br>
> <br>
> So it seems we have different views of how to best maintain politeness <br>
> in public forums.<br>
> <br>
> Best – Juergen<br>
> <br>
> Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
> Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
> University at Buffalo<br>
> <br>
> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
> Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260<br>
> Phone: (716) 645 0127<br>
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> Email: <a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
> Web: <a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a> <<a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a>><br>
> <br>
> Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 <br>
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> <br>
> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In<br>
> (Leonard Cohen)<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> <br>
> *From: *Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of <br>
> Christian Lehmann <<a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank">christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de</a>><br>
> *Date: *Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 3:20 AM<br>
> *To: *<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] what is designated by a complement clause<br>
> <br>
> Am 10.05.23 um 09:01 schrieb Sebastian Nordhoff:<br>
> <br>
> On 5/10/23 08:22, Christian Lehmann wrote:<br>
> <br>
> In order to keep the constructive atmosphere in which our<br>
> communication takes place and which is a presupposition for the<br>
> success of this list , I would request that everybody abstain<br>
> from insisting on political correctness.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> some people might have a communication preference to not be referred<br>
> to by "he".<br>
> You have a preference of not being reminded of these preferences of<br>
> theirs (unless I have misread your message).<br>
> <br>
> Since you request that other people adapt to your preferences,<br>
> <br>
> No, this is not what I request. I request that nobody should insist that <br>
> others adapt to his preferences, in this and in similar respects.<br>
> <br>
> Best wishes,<br>
> Christian<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> <br>
> Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
> Rudolfstr. 4<br>
> 99092 Erfurt<br>
> Deutschland<br>
> <br>
> Tel.:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> +49/361/2113417<br>
> <br>
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> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a>><br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153)">Dr. Matías Guzmán Naranjo<br>Sprachwissenschaftliches Seminar<br>Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg</span><div><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a href="https://mguzmann89.gitlab.io/" target="_blank">https://mguzmann89.gitlab.io/</a><br></span></div></div><br></div></div>