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Dear Christian et al,</div>
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I entirely agree (and not just for reasons of personal modesty!) that if you are to use a term based on
<i>vincere</i> then <i>victive</i> is preferable - cf also <i>factive </i>not <i>
facientive</i>.</div>
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However, on a more serious note, I feel it is necessary to emphasise that my <i>LT</i> article was about the various uses of the term
<i>conative</i> not all of which seem to involve a notion of trying. My reference in the context of Tom's original request was to a section of that article which deals with concepts adjacent to simply trying. I would not propose,
<i>pace </i>Paolo, <i>conative</i> for those constructions which involve trying and succeeding, i.e. the 'manage to do' type, and which Larochette calls
<i>capacitatif.</i></div>
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Best</div>
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Nigel<br>
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<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
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<div>Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>The University of Manchester</div>
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https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2023 5:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org>; tpayne@uoregon.edu <tpayne@uoregon.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Term needed</font>
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<div>Dear Tom,<br>
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I can see that you have already received relevant answers to your question that may also solve your terminological problem. Anyway, just a side-remark on the latter:<br>
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The term <i>conative</i> that was suggested does not appear to quite match the function that you described. The conatives that I know indicate (in consonance with the meaning of Latin
<i>conari</i>) an action that was tried, whereas you require a term for an action that finally succeeded.<br>
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I am, of course, far from objecting against the idea of naming a grammatical category after our esteemed colleague Nigel. As we all know, this is an well-established naming procedure in other disciplines such as biology. However, if the idea was to name it
based on the Latin verb <i>vincere</i>, the term would be <i>victive</i>, not <i>
vincentive</i>. Compare <i>perfective</i>, not <i>perficientive</i>.<br>
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Apologies for making fuss over minor matters, with my best wishes,<br>
Christian<br>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Von:</b> Lingtyp
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> im Auftrag von Tom Payne <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tpayne@uoregon.edu">
<tpayne@uoregon.edu></a><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 21:04<br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">
lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Voltaire Oyzon<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [Lingtyp] Term needed</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Greetings. We have recently come across two constructions in a Philippine language that we need a good term for. These are morphosyntactic constructions involving a dependent
verb form and unusual case marking. The meaning of both constructions is that the actor accomplished the activity after overcoming some obstacle. With one construction, the obstacle is understood as internal/psychological, while with the other the obstacle
is more external. Translation into English is challenging, but the senses lie somewhere in the areas of “be able to VERB” and “manage to VERB”, though there is a distinct abilitive construction. We are considering the term “vincentive” for these constructions,
based on the Latin verb vincere. We would appreciate any and all suggestions on this term, or other possibilities. Also, if anyone else has encountered such a construction, we would very much like to hear about it.
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank you.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tom Payne and Voltaire Oyzon</span></p>
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