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<p>No, not at all. This is just the difference between the Cabecar
and the Japanese situation. And the question remains whether what
we are faced with is not the assimilation [?] of an [h] to a
following [u] or [ɯ], but instead failure of [ɸ] to undergo a
general buccal deconstriction in one context, viz. if followed by
a back high vowel.</p>
<p>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 24.05.2023 um 17:19 schrieb
PASQUEREAU Jeremy:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:55333D65-1794-44CA-AFB8-271494AB6857@cnrs.fr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Hi,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If both [ɯ] and [u] trigger the [h] to [ɸ] change, then I
misunderstood and my suggestion is not relevant (I had
understood that only [u] triggered it).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jérémy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>Jérémy
Pasquereau</b></div>
<div>chargé de recherche — <a
href="https://jeremy-pasquereau.jimdo.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#000000">https://jeremy-pasquereau.jimdo.com/</font></a><br>
<font color="#808080">Laboratoire de
Linguistique de Nantes (LLING) UMR 6310,
CNRS & Nantes Université — </font><a
href="https://lling.univ-nantes.fr/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#808080">https://lling.univ-nantes.fr/</font></a></div>
</div>
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<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Le 24 mai 2023 à 16:05, Christian Lehmann
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de"><christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a> a écrit :</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>
<p>Dear Jérémy and everybody,</p>
<p>you are drawing attention to the fact that, no matter
whether we call the feature [labial] or [rounded], it
is shared by /u/ and /o/. This calls into question the
initial assumption:</p>
<p>No labiality or roundedness feature is responsible
for [h] becoming [ɸ] before [u]/[ɯ]. What seems to
count, instead, is [+high, +back]. However, [ɸ] does
not share [+back] with these vowels, and shares
[+high] with front vowels, too.</p>
<p>Your solution is that [+high, +back] increases the
value of [labial] to [++ labial]. (For both [u] and
[ɯ]?)</p>
<p>An alternative approach would be to doubt that [h]
-> [ɸ] / __ [u]/[ɯ] is at all a process of
assimilation. But what is it then?<br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
</p>
<p>Christian</p>
<p>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 24.05.2023 um 16:35
schrieb PASQUEREAU Jeremy:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:FEA1044D-4F9E-4CE1-B063-CFA2FEDDDD33@cnrs.fr">Dear
Christian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I saw your message on LingTyp and, if I
understood the issue correctly, it seems to me you
may be facing a similar problem as the one I faced a
few years ago when describing the phonology of
Karata (Nakh-Daghestanian): there’s a phonological
rule (C labialization in Karata) that occurs in the
context of some rounded vowels (/u/) but not others
(/o/). How to discriminate between /u/ and /o/ given
that they are both [+round] (or [labial] if using
privative features)? I wrote<a
href="https://muse.jhu.edu/article/712106"
moz-do-not-send="true"> a paper</a> on this where
I make the proposal that in at least some languages
the labial feature is scalar and therefore
phonological rules can make reference to one and not
other labial features. Regardless of the analytical
innovation I proposed, you may find the paper useful
in that it discusses the range of phonetic
(articulatory, perceptual) and phonological evidence
in favor of distinguishing different degrees of
rounding and it also discusses other phonological
phenomena that the proposal can be brought to bear
on.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
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<div style=""><b>Jérémy Pasquereau</b></div>
<div>chargé de recherche — <a
href="https://jeremy-pasquereau.jimdo.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font>https://jeremy-pasquereau.jimdo.com/</font></a><br>
<font color="#808080">Laboratoire
de Linguistique de Nantes
(LLING) UMR 6310, CNRS &
Nantes Université — </font><a
href="https://lling.univ-nantes.fr/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font
color="#808080">https://lling.univ-nantes.fr/</font></a></div>
</div>
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<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Le 23 mai 2023 à 14:40, Christian Lehmann <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a> a
écrit :</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>
<p>Dear Miren and everybody,</p>
<p>I find this problem interesting. Nowadays
everybody appears to agree that syntactic
and morphological classes are essentially
distribution classes although the elements
in question have meaning. In the same
spirit, the distributionalists conceived of
the phoneme in terms of the distribution of
phones although these have physical
properties. And the basic phonological
features like [consonantal] and [syllabic]
essentially relate to the distribution of
segments in phonotactic patterns. Questions
such as whether [ts] consists of two
segments /ts/ or is one affricate /ʦ/ are
not solvable by phonetics (to the best of my
knowledge), but are resolved by analyzing
the distribution of this element. Again, it
is true that distribution alone leads to
unsatisfactory classes. The complementary
distribution of [h] and [ŋ] in several
languages including English is one such
example. Apparently a distribution class
counts as a natural class only if it has a
phonetic motivation.</p>
<p>My impression is that a full phonological
description works with a heterogeneous set
of features: It does not abide by purely
distributional phonological features, but
also needs features which are essentially
phonetic and have no direct relation to the
distribution of the segments characterized
by them. This may concern, in particular,
features involved in processes of
assimilation. If a consonant assimilates to
an adjacent vowel, it means they share a
feature despite their appurtenance to
distinct distribution classes.</p>
<p>Net result for my initial question:
Assuming that I want a rule that assimilates
a fricative to a following [u], producing
[ɸ], I will have to accept an articulatory
feature like [labial] in my phonology. Does
this correspond to the state of the art in
phonology?</p>
<p>Christian<br>
</p>
-- <br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr.
Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></p>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian
Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></p>
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<br>
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</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></p>
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