<div dir="ltr">I've always had issues with Chomsky/Halle privative phonological distinctive features. They may work fine for morphosyntax, but I prefer the Prague-School features for underlying representations.<div><br></div><div>Jess</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 11:06 AM Christian Lehmann <<a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de">christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>Dear Jérémy and everybody,</p>
<p>you are drawing attention to the fact that, no matter whether we
call the feature [labial] or [rounded], it is shared by /u/ and
/o/. This calls into question the initial assumption:</p>
<p>No labiality or roundedness feature is responsible for [h]
becoming [ɸ] before [u]/[ɯ]. What seems to count, instead, is
[+high, +back]. However, [ɸ] does not share [+back] with these
vowels, and shares [+high] with front vowels, too.</p>
<p>Your solution is that [+high, +back] increases the value of
[labial] to [++ labial]. (For both [u] and [ɯ]?)</p>
<p>An alternative approach would be to doubt that [h] -> [ɸ] / __
[u]/[ɯ] is at all a process of assimilation. But what is it then?<br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
</p>
<p>Christian</p>
<p>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</p>
<div>Am 24.05.2023 um 16:35 schrieb
PASQUEREAU Jeremy:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Dear Christian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I saw your message on LingTyp and, if I understood the issue
correctly, it seems to me you may be facing a similar problem as
the one I faced a few years ago when describing the phonology of
Karata (Nakh-Daghestanian): there’s a phonological rule (C
labialization in Karata) that occurs in the context of some
rounded vowels (/u/) but not others (/o/). How to discriminate
between /u/ and /o/ given that they are both [+round] (or
[labial] if using privative features)? I wrote<a href="https://muse.jhu.edu/article/712106" target="_blank"> a paper</a> on this where I make the
proposal that in at least some languages the labial feature is
scalar and therefore phonological rules can make reference to
one and not other labial features. Regardless of the analytical
innovation I proposed, you may find the paper useful in that it
discusses the range of phonetic (articulatory, perceptual) and
phonological evidence in favor of distinguishing different
degrees of rounding and it also discusses other phonological
phenomena that the proposal can be brought to bear on.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
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<div dir="auto" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>Jérémy
Pasquereau</b></div>
<div>chargé de recherche — <a href="https://jeremy-pasquereau.jimdo.com/" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">https://jeremy-pasquereau.jimdo.com/</font></a><br>
<font color="#808080">Laboratoire de
Linguistique de Nantes (LLING) UMR 6310,
CNRS & Nantes Université — </font><a href="https://lling.univ-nantes.fr/" target="_blank"><font color="#808080">https://lling.univ-nantes.fr/</font></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Le 23 mai 2023 à 14:40, Christian Lehmann
<a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank"><christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a> a écrit :</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<p>Dear Miren and everybody,</p>
<p>I find this problem interesting. Nowadays everybody
appears to agree that syntactic and morphological
classes are essentially distribution classes although
the elements in question have meaning. In the same
spirit, the distributionalists conceived of the phoneme
in terms of the distribution of phones although these
have physical properties. And the basic phonological
features like [consonantal] and [syllabic] essentially
relate to the distribution of segments in phonotactic
patterns. Questions such as whether [ts] consists of two
segments /ts/ or is one affricate /ʦ/ are not solvable
by phonetics (to the best of my knowledge), but are
resolved by analyzing the distribution of this element.
Again, it is true that distribution alone leads to
unsatisfactory classes. The complementary distribution
of [h] and [ŋ] in several languages including English is
one such example. Apparently a distribution class counts
as a natural class only if it has a phonetic motivation.</p>
<p>My impression is that a full phonological description
works with a heterogeneous set of features: It does not
abide by purely distributional phonological features,
but also needs features which are essentially phonetic
and have no direct relation to the distribution of the
segments characterized by them. This may concern, in
particular, features involved in processes of
assimilation. If a consonant assimilates to an adjacent
vowel, it means they share a feature despite their
appurtenance to distinct distribution classes.</p>
<p>Net result for my initial question: Assuming that I
want a rule that assimilates a fricative to a following
[u], producing [ɸ], I will have to accept an
articulatory feature like [labial] in my phonology. Does
this correspond to the state of the art in phonology?</p>
<p>Christian<br>
</p>
-- <br>
<div>
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<div>-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
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