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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks, Michael! Just to clarify – I’m not equating indirect causation with induced/mediated causation. Induced/mediated causation via an intermediate agent is merely one special case of indirect causation.
It just happens to be that special case that I’m particularly interested in for the purposes of the generalization in question. – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
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Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
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</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
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There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 3:30 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77@buffalo.edu><br>
<b>Cc: </b>LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] A generalization about morphological and syntactic causatives<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Juergen,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I guess this depends very much on how strict you are on defining periphrastic causatives, to distinguish them from more lexical constructions with coercive semantics.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dargwa languages (East Caucasian) tend to have a fully productive morphological causative that also applies to (di)transitive verbs. <a href="https://langsci-press.org/catalog/view/225/1607/1659-1">Barylnikova
2019</a> describes a series of periphrastic constructions that she (as I would also, at least loosely) qualifies as periphrastic causatives in Mehweb Dargwa. Frankly, I did not know it was so rare; it did not seem unexpected to me at the time we edited the
book; and I thought, back then, that you would be able to find similar examples in other East Caucasian languages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Michael<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">PS I found it unobvious that you equated causatives from transitive verbs to indirect causation, but apparently this depends on the definition of indirect causation and does not directly relate to your question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">ñð, 7 èþí. 2023 ã., 20:57 Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear all – It seems that languages with fully productive morphological causatives tend to lack syntactic (a.k.a. periphrastic/analytical) causatives.
By ‘fully productive’, I mean crucially that the causative marker can be applied to already transitive (and thus semantically causative) bases, and therefore can be used to express indirect causation. Examples of languages that have fully productive morphological
causatives in this sense and lack periphrastic causative constructions include Chuvash, Japanese, Hindi/Urdu, and Shawi (Cahuapanan, Peru).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Two questions about the above generalization:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in">(i)<span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Are there counterexamples?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in">(ii)<span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Are there statements of this generalization in the literature?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks! – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" target="_blank" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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