<div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Hi Juergen,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I guess this depends very much on how strict you are on defining periphrastic causatives, to distinguish them from more lexical constructions with coercive semantics.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Dargwa languages (East Caucasian) tend to have a fully productive morphological causative that also applies to (di)transitive verbs. <a href="https://langsci-press.org/catalog/view/225/1607/1659-1">Barylnikova 2019</a> describes a series of periphrastic constructions that she (as I would also, at least loosely) qualifies as periphrastic causatives in Mehweb Dargwa. Frankly, I did not know it was so rare; it did not seem unexpected to me at the time we edited the book; and I thought, back then, that you would be able to find similar examples in other East Caucasian languages.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div>Michael</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div>PS I found it unobvious that you equated causatives from transitive verbs to indirect causation, but apparently this depends on the definition of indirect causation and does not directly relate to your question.</div><div> <br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">ср, 7 июн. 2023 г., 20:57 Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all – It seems that languages with fully productive morphological causatives tend to lack syntactic (a.k.a. periphrastic/analytical) causatives. By ‘fully productive’, I mean crucially that the causative marker can be applied to already
transitive (and thus semantically causative) bases, and therefore can be used to express indirect causation. Examples of languages that have fully productive morphological causatives in this sense and lack periphrastic causative constructions include Chuvash,
Japanese, Hindi/Urdu, and Shawi (Cahuapanan, Peru). <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Two questions about the above generalization:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u><span>(i)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>Are there counterexamples?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><span>(ii)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u>Are there statements of this generalization in the literature?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks! – Juergen<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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