<div dir="ltr">Add Austronesian languages, at least those in Taiwan and Sulawesi, to the list of languages with both 'fully productive morphological causatives' + syntactic causatives.<div><br></div><div>Examples:</div><div><br></div><div>Tukang Besi (Southeast Sulawesi):</div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">No-pa-manga-‘e na ana te osimpu</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">3R-CAUS-eat-3P NOM child CORE young.coconut</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">‘She made the child eat the young coconut.’</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">No-karajaa-‘e kua no-manga te osimpu na ana</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">3R-make-3P COMP 3R-eat CORE young.coconut NOM child</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">‘She made the child eat the young coconut.’</p></div><div><br></div><div>Rukai (Taiwan)</div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">o-poa-lra-iline apaa-dhe’enge</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dyn.Fin-make-1S.Nom-3S.Obl Rec:Caus-Dyn.NFin:meet</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">dhipolo la taotao.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dhipolo and Taotao</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">‘I introduced Dhipolo to Taotao.’ (Lit: ‘I made Dhipolo and Taotao meet.’)</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">apaa-dhe’enge-lra-iline taotao la dhipolo.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Recip:Caus-Dyn.NFin-meet-1S.Nom-3P.Obl Taotao and Dhipolo</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">‘I introduced Taotao to Dhipolo.’</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">-Mark</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">(<span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.600001px">Zeitoun, Elizabeth (2007).<span class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.600001px">A Grammar of Mantauran (Rukai)</i><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.600001px">. Language and Linguistics Monograph Series A4-2. Taipei: Institute of Linguistics, Academia Sinica)</span></p></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 at 06:25, Guillaume Jacques <<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com" target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Juergen,<br>
<br>
Japhug (<a href="http://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295</a>) is a counterexample, it<br>
has a very productive causative prefix sɯ-/z- (phonologically<br>
conditioned allomorphs) which can be applied to loanwords from Tibetan<br>
and even from Chinese, and occurs on transitive verbs<br>
(<a href="https://paperhive.org/documents/items/Q7EaSdGqQ2jb?a=p:863" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://paperhive.org/documents/items/Q7EaSdGqQ2jb?a=p:863</a>), but at<br>
the same time there are periphrastic causative constructions, for<br>
instance with the verb βzu "make"<br>
(<a href="https://paperhive.org/documents/items/Q7EaSdGqQ2jb?a=p:1378" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://paperhive.org/documents/items/Q7EaSdGqQ2jb?a=p:1378</a>).<br>
<br>
Guillaume<br>
<br>
Le mer. 7 juin 2023 à 20:57, Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>> a écrit :<br>
><br>
> Dear all – It seems that languages with fully productive morphological causatives tend to lack syntactic (a.k.a. periphrastic/analytical) causatives. By ‘fully productive’, I mean crucially that the causative marker can be applied to already transitive (and thus semantically causative) bases, and therefore can be used to express indirect causation. Examples of languages that have fully productive morphological causatives in this sense and lack periphrastic causative constructions include Chuvash, Japanese, Hindi/Urdu, and Shawi (Cahuapanan, Peru).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Two questions about the above generalization:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> (i)                  Are there counterexamples?<br>
><br>
> (ii)                Are there statements of this generalization in the literature?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks! – Juergen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
> Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
> University at Buffalo<br>
><br>
> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
> Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260<br>
> Phone: (716) 645 0127<br>
> Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
> Email: <a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a><br>
> Web: <a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a><br>
><br>
> Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)<br>
><br>
> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In<br>
> (Leonard Cohen)<br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
Guillaume Jacques<br>
<br>
Directeur de recherches<br>
CNRS (CRLAO) - EPHE- INALCO<br>
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