<html><head></head><body> <div><br></div><div dir="auto">Norwegian has:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Veita faen/søren</div><div dir="auto">Know devil</div><div dir="auto">‘I don’t know.’</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">(Alt. spelling veit/vet da faen/søren if you want to google.)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I can’t think of anything in my native language Dutch but would be interested to learn. <caret></caret></div><div dir="auto"><br></div> <div><br></div><div><br></div>On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 16:42, <<a href="mailto:On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 16:42, <<a href=" class="">lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"> Send Lingtyp mailing list submissions to<br> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> lingtyp-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Lingtyp digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective (Stefan Savi?)<br> 2. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective (Tom Koss)<br> 3. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective (Mira Ariel)<br> 4. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective (Pun Ho Lui)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:16:52 +0200<br>From: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com><br>To: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com><br>Cc: Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>,<br> "<LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"<br> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective<br>Message-ID:<br> <CA+1szGCw4YpZEcZP_1eFvaTqyygncsoho9RYrBBMTixTMFNSpA@mail.gmail.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Same applies to BCMS *?avola*:<br><br>?avola mi je pomogao.<br><br>devil.m.sg.gen pron.1sg.dat be.prs.3sg help.pfv.pst.m.sg<br>=<br>Kurac mi je pomogao.<br>cock.m.sg.nom pron.1sg.dat be.prs.3sg help.pfv.pst.m.sg<br>"He helped me, my ass" (= He didn't help me at all).<br><br><br>On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 15:51, Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br>> This is true.<br>><br>> But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can<br>> qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't<br>> / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty<br>> common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare<br>> phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know; this is<br>> unclear' from lit. penis knows.<br>><br>> Michael<br>><br>> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>:<br>><br>>> Dear all,<br>>><br>>> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear<br>>> words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.<br>>> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I<br>>> know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).<br>>><br>>> Regards,<br>>> Ian<br>>><br>>> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il> ??:<br>>><br>>> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already<br>>> discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation,<br>>> and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others<br>>> (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')<br>>><br>>> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly<br>>> *zayin* and *zibbi*, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior<br>>> mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe@uga.edu> wrote:<br>>><br>>>> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance,<br>>>> in Spanish you can find the following:<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.<br>>>><br>>>> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.<br>>>><br>>>> ?I don?t care at all.?<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are<br>>>> quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for<br>>>> some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Following up on the comment about *?avola *("devil") in<br>>>> BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated<br>>>> below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction<br>>>> also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., *carajo *?shit?, *cojones<br>>>> *?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are<br>>>> described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ?Qu? demonios quieres?<br>>>><br>>>> What devils want.2sg<br>>>><br>>>> ?What the hell do you want??<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Best wishes,<br>>>><br>>>> Chad Howe<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In *The<br>>>> representation of (in)definiteness*, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G.<br>>>> B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf<br>>>> of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com><br>>>> *Date: *Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM<br>>>> *To: *Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com><br>>>> *Cc: *lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <<br>>>> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br>>>> cross-linguistic perspective<br>>>><br>>>> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]<br>>>><br>>>> Dear Pun Ho Lui,<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in<br>>>> different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar<br>>>> to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a<br>>>> negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though<br>>>> not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure<br>>>> how to gloss it.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Sincerely,<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Michael Daniel<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????<br>>>><br>>>> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows<br>>>><br>>>> 'he does not know anything at all'<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????<br>>>><br>>>> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money<br>>>><br>>>> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any<br>>>> money'<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ?? ??? (??????-???)<br>>>><br>>>> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)<br>>>><br>>>> 'Nothing like that at all!'<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com>:<br>>>><br>>>> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form *?avola<br>>>> *("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per<br>>>> se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a<br>>>> matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular<br>>>> *kurac* is often replaceable with the genitive singular *?avola *(whereby<br>>>> the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Best,<br>>>><br>>>> Stefan<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001@gmail.com> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>> Dear linguists,<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or<br>>>> minimizer/?squatitive? (2):<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> (1) Cantonese<br>>>><br>>>> ? ? ?<br>>>><br>>>> 1sg dick know<br>>>><br>>>> ?I don?t know.?<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.<br>>>><br>>>> ?I learn nothing.?<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Other languages with these pattens include:<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> - Russian<br>>>><br>>>> - German *einen Teufel *?a devil?<br>>>><br>>>> - Swedish *s? fan Heller*<br>>>><br>>>> *- *French *mon cul* ?my ass? (?)<br>>>><br>>>> - Polish *chuj *?dick?; *g?wno *?shit?<br>>>><br>>>> - Serbian *kurac *?penis'<br>>>><br>>>> - Croatian *kurac ?penis?*<br>>>><br>>>> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> These examples are provided in:<br>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar<br>>>> constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Thank you.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Warmest,<br>>>><br>>>> Pun Ho Lui<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/293cbc3a/attachment-0001.htm><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:22:13 +0000<br>From: Tom Koss <Tom.Koss@uantwerpen.be><br>To: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com>, Ian Joo<br> <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp><br>Cc: "<LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"<br> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective<br>Message-ID:<br> <AS8PR05MB10112968FB5D1D775431793A09A55A@AS8PR05MB10112.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com><br><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Dear all,<br><br>German einen Schei? ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also qualify.<br><br>Ein-en ? ????? Schei? werde ich tun!<br>INDF-ACC ?? shit FUT I do<br>lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."<br><br>Ein-en ?????Schei? sehe ich.<br>INDF-ACC shit see I<br>lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."<br><br>I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel, which sounds quite a bit dated.<br><br>All best,<br>Tom Koss<br>PhD student University of Antwerp<br><br><br><br>________________________________<br>From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com><br>Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM<br>To: Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp><br>Cc: <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective<br><br><br>CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br><br><br>This is true.<br><br>But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know; this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.<br><br>Michael<br><br>??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp<mailto:ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>>:<br>Dear all,<br><br>technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.<br>So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).<br><br>Regards,<br>Ian<br><br>13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il>> ??:<br><br>I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')<br><br>For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.<br><br><br><br>On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe@uga.edu<mailto:chowe@uga.edu>> wrote:<br><br>Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,<br><br><br><br>These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:<br><br><br><br>(No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.<br><br>NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.<br><br>?I don?t care at all.?<br><br><br><br>There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.<br><br><br><br>Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.<br><br><br><br>?Qu? demonios quieres?<br><br>What devils want.2sg<br><br>?What the hell do you want??<br><br><br><br>Best wishes,<br><br>Chad Howe<br><br><br><br>Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.<br><br><br><br><br><br>From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com<mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com>><br>Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM<br>To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com<mailto:stefansavicz@gmail.com>><br>Cc: lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org>><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective<br><br>[EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]<br><br>Dear Pun Ho Lui,<br><br><br><br>In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.<br><br><br><br><br><br>Sincerely,<br><br><br><br>Michael Daniel<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>?? ?? ??? ?? ?????<br><br>he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows<br><br>'he does not know anything at all'<br><br><br><br>??? ????, ? ?? ??????<br><br>penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money<br><br>'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'<br><br><br><br>?? ??? (??????-???)<br><br>not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)<br><br>'Nothing like that at all!'<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com<mailto:stefansavicz@gmail.com>>:<br><br>Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,<br><br><br><br>In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).<br><br><br><br>Best,<br><br>Stefan<br><br><br><br>On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001@gmail.com<mailto:luiph001@gmail.com>> wrote:<br><br>Dear linguists,<br><br><br><br>Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/?squatitive? (2):<br><br><br><br>(1) Cantonese<br><br> ? ? ?<br><br> 1sg dick know<br><br> ?I don?t know.?<br><br><br><br>(2) I learn fuck all/ shit.<br><br>?I learn nothing.?<br><br><br><br>Other languages with these pattens include:<br><br><br><br>- Russian<br><br>- German einen Teufel ?a devil?<br><br>- Swedish s? fan Heller<br><br>- French mon cul ?my ass? (?)<br><br>- Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?<br><br>- Serbian kurac ?penis'<br><br>- Croatian kurac ?penis?<br><br>- Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?<br><br><br><br>These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/<br><br><br><br>I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.<br><br><br><br>Thank you.<br><br><br><br>Warmest,<br><br>Pun Ho Lui<br><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/fc5d375a/attachment-0001.htm><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:33:11 +0000<br>From: Mira Ariel <mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il><br>To: Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>,<br> "<LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"<br> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective<br>Message-ID:<br> <AM6PR02MB397587938E4F71B1C992F6E6D055A@AM6PR02MB3975.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com><br><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Hi,<br><br>True, but we know the fate of negative strengtheners. Think of French pas...<br><br>Mira<br>________________________________<br>From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp><br>Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 6:43 AM<br>To: <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective<br><br>Dear all,<br><br>technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.<br>So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).<br><br>Regards,<br>Ian<br><br>13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il> ??:<br><br>I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')<br><br>For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.<br><br><br><br>On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe@uga.edu<mailto:chowe@uga.edu>> wrote:<br><br>Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,<br><br><br><br>These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:<br><br><br><br>(No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.<br><br>NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.<br><br>?I don?t care at all.?<br><br><br><br>There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.<br><br><br><br>Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.<br><br><br><br>?Qu? demonios quieres?<br><br>What devils want.2sg<br><br>?What the hell do you want??<br><br><br><br>Best wishes,<br><br>Chad Howe<br><br><br><br>Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.<br><br><br><br><br><br>From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com<mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com>><br>Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM<br>To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com<mailto:stefansavicz@gmail.com>><br>Cc: lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org>><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective<br><br>[EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]<br><br>Dear Pun Ho Lui,<br><br><br><br>In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.<br><br><br><br><br><br>Sincerely,<br><br><br><br>Michael Daniel<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>?? ?? ??? ?? ?????<br><br>he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows<br><br>'he does not know anything at all'<br><br><br><br>??? ????, ? ?? ??????<br><br>penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money<br><br>'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'<br><br><br><br>?? ??? (??????-???)<br><br>not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)<br><br>'Nothing like that at all!'<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com<mailto:stefansavicz@gmail.com>>:<br><br>Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,<br><br><br><br>In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).<br><br><br><br>Best,<br><br>Stefan<br><br><br><br>On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001@gmail.com<mailto:luiph001@gmail.com>> wrote:<br><br>Dear linguists,<br><br><br><br>Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/?squatitive? (2):<br><br><br><br>(1) Cantonese<br><br> ? ? ?<br><br> 1sg dick know<br><br> ?I don?t know.?<br><br><br><br>(2) I learn fuck all/ shit.<br><br>?I learn nothing.?<br><br><br><br>Other languages with these pattens include:<br><br><br><br>- Russian<br><br>- German einen Teufel ?a devil?<br><br>- Swedish s? fan Heller<br><br>- French mon cul ?my ass? (?)<br><br>- Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?<br><br>- Serbian kurac ?penis'<br><br>- Croatian kurac ?penis?<br><br>- Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?<br><br><br><br>These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/<br><br><br><br>I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.<br><br><br><br>Thank you.<br><br><br><br>Warmest,<br><br>Pun Ho Lui<br><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/b93c89ca/attachment-0001.htm><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 4<br>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 22:42:30 +0800<br>From: Pun Ho Lui <luiph001@gmail.com><br>To: Tom Koss <Tom.Koss@uantwerpen.be><br>Cc: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com>, Ian Joo<br> <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>, "<LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"<br> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a<br> cross-linguistic perspective<br>Message-ID: <9D27560B-27EA-4E7C-875F-D84E12AFE6A9@gmail.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Dear Tom Koss,<br><br>Thank you for you example.<br>Is it possible for ?shit? be accompanied by any negator/ ?nothing? and the like?<br><br>Warmest,<br>Pun Ho Lui (?Joe?)<br>> Tom Koss <Tom.Koss@uantwerpen.be> ? 2023?6?13? ??10:22 ???<br>><br>> Dear all,<br>><br>> German einen Schei? ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also qualify.<br>><br>> Ein-en ? ????? Schei? werde ich tun!<br>> INDF-ACC ?? shit FUT I do<br>> lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."<br>><br>> Ein-en ?????Schei? sehe ich.<br>> INDF-ACC shit see I<br>> lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."<br>><br>> I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel, which sounds quite a bit dated.<br>><br>> All best,<br>> Tom Koss<br>> PhD student University of Antwerp<br>><br>><br>><br>> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com>><br>> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM<br>> To: Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>><br>> Cc: <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org>><br>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective<br>><br>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<br>><br>> This is true.<br>><br>> But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know; this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.<br>><br>> Michael<br>><br>> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp>>:<br>> Dear all,<br>><br>> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.<br>> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).<br>><br>> Regards,<br>> Ian<br>><br>>> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il>> ??:<br>>><br>>> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')<br>>><br>>> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe@uga.edu <mailto:chowe@uga.edu>> wrote:<br>>> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,<br>>><br>>> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:<br>>><br>>> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.<br>>> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.<br>>> ?I don?t care at all.?<br>>><br>>> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.<br>>><br>>> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.<br>>><br>>> ?Qu? demonios quieres?<br>>> What devils want.2sg<br>>> ?What the hell do you want??<br>>><br>>> Best wishes,<br>>> Chad Howe<br>>><br>>> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.<br>>><br>>><br>>> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel@gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com>><br>>> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM<br>>> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz@gmail.com>><br>>> Cc: lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org>><br>>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective<br>>><br>>> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]<br>>><br>>> Dear Pun Ho Lui,<br>>><br>>> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Sincerely,<br>>><br>>> Michael Daniel<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????<br>>> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows<br>>> 'he does not know anything at all'<br>>><br>>> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????<br>>> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money<br>>> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'<br>>><br>>> ?? ??? (??????-???)<br>>> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)<br>>> 'Nothing like that at all!'<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz@gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz@gmail.com>>:<br>>> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,<br>>><br>>> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).<br>>><br>>> Best,<br>>> Stefan<br>>><br>>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001@gmail.com <mailto:luiph001@gmail.com>> wrote:<br>>> Dear linguists,<br>>><br>>> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/?squatitive? (2):<br>>><br>>> (1) Cantonese<br>>> ? ? ?<br>>> 1sg dick know<br>>> ?I don?t know.?<br>>><br>>> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.<br>>> ?I learn nothing.?<br>>><br>>> Other languages with these pattens include:<br>>><br>>> - Russian<br>>> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?<br>>> - Swedish s? fan Heller<br>>> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)<br>>> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?<br>>> - Serbian kurac ?penis'<br>>> - Croatian kurac ?penis?<br>>> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?<br>>><br>>> These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/><br>>><br>>> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.<br>>><br>>> Thank you.<br>>><br>>> Warmest,<br>>> Pun Ho Lui<br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>_______________________________________________<br>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>> Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/dfc5d817/attachment.htm><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of Lingtyp Digest, Vol 105, Issue 10<br>****************************************<br></blockquote></body></html>