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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yikes! Temper, temper, dear colleagues! Fwiw, Adam, I read your statement the same way as Christian apparently did, even though I’m a defender of particularism
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">😉</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Finiteness: I’ve been trying hard to resist the temptation to weigh in on this. Very very briefly:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Obviously, many languages make no morphological distinction between matrix predications and subordinate predications.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">And many other languages do make such a distinction.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In some languages, this distinction involves the categories of person and tense familiar from IE finiteness.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In others, it does not. In Yucatec (you knew this was coming!), all verb forms carry cross-reference markers (‘person’) regardless of syntactic context,
unless they are morphologically nominalized. However, matrix predications projected from verbs require a preverbal marker that expresses viewpoint aspect, modality, or temporal remoteness, and that marker is ungrammatical in most complements (arguably all
that are actually embedded into the matrix, as opposed to adjoined to it, which is what happens with complements of speech act predicates etc.). I’ve associated the presence/absence of this marker as expressing a finiteness contrast, particularly considering
two additional factoids: (i) The functional meanings expressed in this slot all directly relate to the utterance’s topic situation; and (ii) the language is tenseless, so functional expressions other than tense arguably assume the role tense plays in other
languages. I’ve tried to hash this out a bit <a href="https://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/Bohnemeyer_2019_RRG_keynote_operator.pdf">
here</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">When I said upthread that there’s no theory of finiteness I’m ready to endorse, I meant specifically that there’s no theory that doesn’t in some way
or other make reference to what I consider language-particular properties by treating those as if they were universals. With that exact caveat, though, I’ve been sympathetic to the semantic side of Wolfgang Klein’s work on finiteness. Money quote:<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“(…) finiteness (a) links the descriptive content of the sentence (the 'sentence basis') to its topic component (in particular, to its topic time), and (b) it confines the illocutionary force to that topic
component.” (Klein 2006: 245)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’ll try even harder to shut up now
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">😉</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> – Best – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Klein, W. (2006). On finiteness. In V. van Geenhoven (ed.),
<i>Semantics in acquisition</i>. Berlin: Springer. 245-272.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Adam James Ross Tallman <ajrtallman@utexas.edu><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 13:03<br>
<b>To: </b>Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de><br>
<b>Cc: </b>lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Moods and non-finites?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130">Dear Cristian and everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130">Read the comments more carefully before replying because I did not say nor imply that the concept should be dispensed with.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130">Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 12:46 PM Christian Lehmann <<a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de">christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Adam and everybody,<br>
<br>
just a brief reply to this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130">For a functional-typological audience, I'm sort of surprised the distinction is still brought up as if it was discrete (or not just a matter of definition as Martin points
out), since Bybee discussed the issue of inflectional status as a continuum with lexical/derivational in her Morphology book some 30+ years ago. It's also well-known that these notions of inflection/finiteness are tricky or nonapplicable in many so-called
polysynthetic languages (e.g. de Reuse 2009).</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#4C1130"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It is a recurrent misunderstanding among typologists, chiefly of particularist persuasion, that a grammatical concept should be dispensed with because it is not discrete, covers a continuum, is not applicable
to all languages or what not. If one takes this position, then <b>no</b> grammatical concept whatsoever can be used in the description of more than one language. It seems more realistic, and even methodologically more fruitful, to live by concepts whose cross-linguistic
application is "tricky".<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Tel.:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">+49/361/2113417<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">E-Post:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Web:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br clear="all">
<br>
<span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Adam J.R. Tallman</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Post-doctoral Researcher
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Friedrich Schiller Universität</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Department of English Studies</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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