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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Jürgen,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">just a short reply on the last point. If I understand you definition of “topic situation” here correctly (see repeated),
and since you characterize subordinate clauses (with the mentioned exceptions) to not have their own topic situations, this is tantamount to saying that they lack independent illocutionary force. So, we are back to the start…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Mood classifies utterances in terms of whether their ‘topic situation’ is (assumed to be) part of the interlocutors’ actual world (the speech situation and its
past) or not (the speech situation’s future and counterfactual past situations). An utterance’s topic situation is the situation it makes a statement or promise, asks a question, issues a directive, etc., about.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Björn.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Juergen Bohnemeyer [mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 15. Juli 2023 12:22<br>
<b>An:</b> Wiemer, Bjoern <wiemerb@uni-mainz.de>; Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi>; lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: Moods and non-finites?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Bjoern – Just a couple quick rejoinders:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes, I do view deontic modality as operating on propositions, in accordance with the semantic and philosophical literature that I’m familiar with (but please note
I’m by no means an expert on modality). Deontic modality is in this sense different from descriptions of ability, particularly generic statements such as your example (3). But of course there is pragmatic overlap here.
<i>Ernie is able to eat 20 pancakes in one sitting</i> and <i>Ernie eats 20 pancakes in one sitting</i> are semantically distinct, but they may be used to answer the same question under discussion by conveying the same nugget of information.
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I also understand, and am sympathetic to, the reluctance to treat
<i>Ernie is able to eat 20 pancakes in one sitting</i> as a modalization of the proposition ‘There exists, or will exist, an event during which Ernie eats 20 pancakes in one sitting.’ Language is “organic”, theories are not, or not as organic as natural languages.
Just because we can come up with a unified account of the semantics of modality doesn’t mean that all expressions covered by this account fit equally well with our intuitions of how they are interpreted or how they evolve.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m a little bit worried about your examples (1a) and (2a), because those are in my view not merely modalized statements. The matrix predicate there seems to express
a particular kind of speech act that “colors” the modal interpretation.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Mood operating on speech acts is not inconsistent with its being marked in subordinate clauses etc. Subordinate clauses usually do not have their own topic situations
(exceptions arise with apositives and parentheticals), but rather are interpreted with respect to the topic situation of the superordinate utterance. Since you mention Micky Noonan’s (fantastic!) work, this is one place where his notion of ‘dependent time
reference’ comes in. For examples, subjunctives are often used to describe unrealized situations that are desired or feared (etc.) to occur at some unspecified distance into the future of the matrix utterance’s topic situation.
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">HTH! – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> <br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Wiemer, Bjoern <<a href="mailto:wiemerb@uni-mainz.de">wiemerb@uni-mainz.de</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 11:41<br>
<b>To: </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>>, Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi">jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi</a>>,
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>AW: Moods and non-finites?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Dear All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">if I my add some questions to this interesting discussion, I’d first like to say that I’m much sympathetic with Jürgen’s attempt at drawing apart
“mood” and “modality”. I could even “buy” his definitions – as a working basis – but I find it important to specify some things.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> First, when modality is generally defined as a domain in which NEC(essity) and POSS(ibility) operate on _<i>propositions</i>_, this
raises the question what you do with non-epistemic modality. While epistemic judgments clearly reside on propositions, deontic and other kinds of modality on “lower layers” are not related to propositions, but to states of affairs – unless you want to say
that, e.g., a moral judgment like</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(1)
<i>People should not kill</i> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">or prohibitions like
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(2)
<i>You are not to smoke in this room</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">or characterizations that can easily be read like assignments of general dispositions, as in</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(3)
<i>Ernie eats 20 pancakes in one take</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">are seen as “translations” of something like
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(1a)<i> It is required that people should not kill</i>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(2a)<i> We urge you not to smoke in this room</i>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(3a)
<i>Ernie is capable of eating 20 pancakes in one take</i>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">(Note that 1-3 are not truth-conditionally falsifiable.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">I mean there is a difference between uttering a judgment that is not epistemic (an obligation, a statement about somebody’s dispositions, and more)
and giving a “description” of that non-epistemic judgment. Otherwise I don’t understand how we might say that ALL modality is about NEC:POSS-contrasts over propositions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Second, if “mood” is defined as relating to illocutionary force, then this rules out mood distinctions that have been made for subordinate clauses.
Somewhat ironically, the term “subjunctive”, or “conditional”, seems to have been coined for means (morphological markers on the verb or the VP) that occurs only, or predominantly, in subordinate clauses; and subordinate clauses are often claimed to be void
of independent illocutionary force.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">In addition, above all that has been said on these intriguing issues so far since Jussi came up with his question, the question of “mood” becomes
complicated even more when we take into account that in certain, hm, traditions of linguistic research “mood”, or more specific terms like “subjunctive”, have been applied to scattered marking on clause level that likewise distinguishes things like illocutionary
force (representative vs directive speech acts) or that occur in certain control constructions (<i>I want</i> SoA,
<i>I order</i> <i>that</i> SoA, etc.), for clausal complements with weakened epistemic support (e.g., after negated cognitive or perception verbs:
<i>I don’t think/believe that P</i>; <i>I don’t see that P</i>), or in other structures of clause combining that are in some languages (e.g., Romance) regularly marked with a morphological subjunctive/conditional, or in other (recent) traditions are discussed
under headings like “irrealis” (understood as a notional distinction, not a class of tight structural means).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">In many cases, “analytical subjunctive” has been referred to structures as in Balkan Slavic, where all these aforementioned
notional distinctions and structural environments are marked (or can be marked) with no specific morphology (on the verb or other constituents of the clause), but by clause-initial connectives (the proper status of which has been subject to countless debates)
that contrast with standard (neutral, default) complementizers (Engl. ‘that’). See (4a) vs (4b) from Bulgarian: the standard complementizer
</span><i><span lang="CS" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">č</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">e</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">
(associated with full epistemic support) in (4a) can occur with any tense (here: the aorist,
</span><i><span lang="CS" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">rešix</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">), while the connective
<i>da</i> occurs, among other things, in complements of predicates that code an intention, as in (4b);
<i>da</i> restricts the array of tenses which are otherwise allowed in the “indicative” (<i>da</i> cannot occur with the aorist, but preferably occurs with present tense or the perfect).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">(4a)
</span><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">Mislj-a,
</span></i><b><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">č</span></i></b><b><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-BoldItalic">e
</span></i></b><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">re</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">š</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">i-x
vsi</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">č</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">ki zada</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">č</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">i</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">think[ipfv]-prs.1sg comp solve[pfv]-aor.1sg all task.pl</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">na testa</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">on test.def</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">‘I think I (have) solved all tasks from the test.’</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">(4b)
</span><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">Mislj-a
</span></i><b><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-BoldItalic">da
</span></i></b><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">izlezn-a malko na v</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">ă</span></i><i><span lang="PL" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience-Italic">zdux.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">think[ipfv]-prs.1sg con go_out[pfv]-prs.1sg a_bit on air</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:DGMetaSerifScience">‘I think I’ll go a little bit out into fresh air.’</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">There is, thus, a clear contrast between
</span><i><span lang="CS" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">če</span></i><span lang="CS" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> and
<i>da</i></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> as means of connecting clausal complements to higher-order predicates, and
<i>da</i> is also used in independent clauses, e.g. as kind of imperative (e.g., Macedonian
</span><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Da gi pre</span></i><i><span lang="CS" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">čekate</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">!
</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">‘Welcome them!’). Both connectives are practically in complementary distribution, and they differ as for the range of verb forms with which they can combine, but there
is no special verb morphology designed to mark all the aforementioned clause types.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">In the literature,
<i>da</i>-clauses are often dubbed “analytic subjunctives” (or simply “analytical mood”). This parlance came up, as far as I can see, predominantly in generative literature, but it has been adopted in some (prominent) linguistic work, such as Noonan’s article
on clausal complementation. Though I personally find this unfortunate (it creates more confusion than it helps clarifying how languages are structured, and how they are structured differently), this is just a fact of linguistic practice. The least one can
(and should) do, in my view, is to clearly say whether “mood” (or any assumed subcategory, like “subjunctive”) is to be defined as a language-specific structure (e.g., the traditional subjunctive marked on the verb) or as a notional domain. If the latter is
at stake, then we nonetheless need clear-cut form/structure-oriented criteria saying whether illocutionary force distinctions or distinctions like full vs weak epistemic support in clausal complements, or of what happens in control constructions (e.g., after
manipulative verbs), are marked by clausal connectives (a prime means in Slavic languages), or by verbal morphology (as probably in Romance) or by both (as in Romanian, unsurprisingly as an “overlap” between Slavic and Romance). Otherwise things like “mood
choice” and “complementizer choice” will inevitably run into one another and become indistinguishable, at least if one looks out for comparative concepts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Sorry for bothering you. But the intricacies, and the pervasive relevance of these considerations can be seen in Slavic languages par excellence.
I happened to bring this down in a (hopefully) comprehensive way in a recent paper available under</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:AdvOT32908d57"><a href="https://doi.org/10.1515/slaw-2023-0012"><span lang="EN-US">https://doi.org/10.1515/slaw-2023-0012</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">or on</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"><a href="https://uni-mainz.academia.edu/Bj%C3%B6rnWiemer"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563C1">https://uni-mainz.academia.edu/Bj%C3%B6rnWiemer</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(Between analytical mood and clause-initial particles – on the diagnostics of subordination for (emergent) complementizers.
<i>Zeitschrift für Slawistik</i> 68-2, 187-260)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">I have no solution for how to define a comparative concept of “mood”, but it seems obvious that form- and function-oriented criteria must not be
used interchangeably (to say the least).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Björn (Wiemer).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Lingtyp [<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 14. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Juli 2023 22:32<br>
<b>An:</b> Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi">jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi</a>>;
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Moods and non-finites?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Jussi – I see that you’re getting as many opinions as you’re getting responses
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">😊</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> But I’m going to add mine, simply because none of the other users seems to have mentioned what I see as the primary
issue.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Fwiw., from my point of view, the key question here is not finiteness, but semantics. Let’s assume that _<i>-ne</i>_ does indeed have a single “semantic meaning” (as opposed to pragmatic implicatures
arising from it in various contexts), and that meaning is, as you say, epistemic modality.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">The question then arises whether one wishes to conflate the notional categories (a.k.a. comparative concepts) of ‘mood’ and ‘modality’ or to keep them distinct. Personally, I prefer the latter,
since they are quite distinct conceptually and in my experience, their expression tends to be in first approximation independent, or at least distinct, in the languages of the world. But, again, this is a consideration purely of utility – there’s no correct
or incorrect answer. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">If I were to propose typologically useful working definitions for the comparative concepts ‘mood’ and ‘modality’, I would offer something like this:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Modality classifies propositions into those that are necessarily (not) true and those that are potentially (not) true. (Non-modalized speech acts simply steer
clear of this classification.) This distinction can be conceptualized in terms of quantification over possible worlds, force dynamics, or however else one sees fit. And to say that a proposition is necessarily or possibly true requires some, usually contextually
determined, set of assumptions against which the modalized speech act is evaluated. In the case of epistemic modality, that set of assumptions is the sum of what the speaker purports to know.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Mood classifies utterances in terms of whether their ‘topic situation’ is (assumed to be) part of the interlocutors’ actual world (the speech situation and its
past) or not (the speech situation’s future and counterfactual past situations). An utterance’s topic situation is the situation it makes a statement or promise, asks a question, issues a directive, etc., about.
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Now, I’m not aware of any theory of finiteness I’d be ready to endorse, including my own. (I guess you could take this this along the lines of the famous Groucho Marx quip that he’d never join
a club that would accept him as a member.) But, based on the above characterization, modality is a propositional operator, whereas mood is a speech-act-level operator. And since propositions are the objects/arguments of speech acts, we should expect to generally
find modality further “down” in the syntactic structure, i.e., closer to the lexical content, than mood.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">So this means that if _<i>-ne</i>_ is indeed a modal operator, I would consider its showing up in nonfinite projections less surprising than if it were a mood operator.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Lastly, none of the above should be construed as a criticism of the traditional terminological practice of Finnish linguistics. The cognancy of _<i>modal</i>_ and _<i>modus</i>_ alone makes it
almost unreasonable to expect terminological traditions to be answerable to the semantic factoids cited above. Particularly when paired with paucity of thorough and typologically sensitive semantic work on the issues.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">HTH! – Juergen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
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Email: </span><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> <br>
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</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
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There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <</span><a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>
on behalf of Jussi Ylikoski <</span><a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">jussi.ylikoski@utu.fi</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 20:22<br>
<b>To: </b></span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp] Moods and non-finites?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Dear typologists,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">I have a question about the notion of
<i>mood</i> as a grammatical, and more specifically, morphological category. It should not have come as a surprise to me that on a general, language-specific level, various dictionaries of linguistic terms define and characterize
<i>mood</i> quite vaguely, but I am still surprised to see how difficult it is to find explicit statements on whether or not morphological moods are generally limited to finite verb forms or not.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Put concretely, I am wondering whether it is conceptually (or typologically) odd or natural to regard the Finnish "potential mood" marker -<i>ne</i>- a mood, as its use is not strictly limited
to finite verb forms (2) but can also attested in some – and only some – non-finites such as the present participle (2), in contrast to the unmarked or "indicative" participle seen in (3). The semantic function of the potential in -<i>ne</i>- is that of epistemic
modality:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black">(1) Remontti valmistu-ne-e elokuu-ssa.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> renovation be.completed-POT-3SG August-INE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> 'The renovation will probably be completed in August.'</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black">(2) elokuu-ssa valmistu-ne-va remontti</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> August-INE be.completed-POT-PTCP.PRS renovation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:115%">
<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> 'the renovation that will probably be completed in August'</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black">(3) elokuu-ssa valmistu-va remontti</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> August-INE be.completed-PTCP.PRS renovation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:115%">
<span lang="FI" style="font-family:Courier;color:black"> 'the renovation that will be completed in August'</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">In light of the Finnish (and more generally Uralic) grammatical tradition, participials seen in (2) do not and cannot exist, but if they do as it seems, inflectional moods do not behave like
this, and the morpheme -<i>ne</i>- in <i>valmistu-ne-va</i> should probably be analyzed as a kind of derivational affix instead.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">I would be interested to know whether linguists outside the Finnish tradition see it as problematic or unproblematic to call the morpheme -<i>ne</i>- in
<i>valmistu-ne-va</i> (2) a participle a marker of a morphological (inflectional) mood. Are there any parallels to forms like this, and possibly studies on these issues?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span lang="FI" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Jussi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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