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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Keren and Masha (and everyone) – Only semi-on-topic, but it appears to be an odd and conspicuous quirk of Mayan languages that they disallow nominalization of transitive verbs. That is, verbs have to
be detransitivized via antipassivization or object incorporation before they can be nominalized. This factoid appears all the more striking once it’s taken into account that Mayan is among the not so many language families that systematically conflate ergative
and possessor marking (via cross–reference morphology). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The constraint against nominalization of transitive verbs certainly holds for the Yucatecan languages, and Robertson (1992) claims that it applies family-wide. Inexplicably, if I understand him correctly,
Robertson seems to have assumed that the constraint is in fact a universal. In actual fact, I’m not aware that anybody has been able to offer a plausible explanation for the constraint.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’m curious whether there are known instances of this phenomenon outside Mayan (and also whether there are truly no counterexamples anywhere in Mayan). Maybe Masha’s typology covers it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Robertson, J. S. (1992). The history of tense/aspect/mood/voice in the Mayan verbal complex. Austin, TX: UT Press.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
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Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
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Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
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</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
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(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Maria Koptjevskaja Tamm <tamm@ling.su.se><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 20:18<br>
<b>To: </b>Keren Ruditsky <krudit@uw.edu><br>
<b>Cc: </b>lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Question about nominalized verbs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Keren, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is an example of the nominalisation type that I call “Possessive-Accusative” type in my book “Nominalizations” (1993, Routledge) – I can send you a couple of other publications that summarise my typology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">All the best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Maria Koptjevskaja Tamm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 15 Aug 2023, at 17:48, Keren Ruditsky <<a href="mailto:krudit@uw.edu">krudit@uw.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear everyone,</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I am working on a master's thesis and I was wondering about any cases of languages which have nominalized verbs taking two arguments where the
argument syntactically closer to the nominalized verb is marked like the argument of a noun, and the one syntactically further is marked like the argument of a verb.</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One example of such a language might be Standard Arabic where, as shown below, the subject of a nominalized verb</span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="contentpasted0"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">zayd-in</span></i></span><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> ‘Zayd-GEN’
is marked with genitive case (which is the case used to mark a nominal possessor) while the object</span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="contentpasted0"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></i></span><span class="contentpasted0"><i><sup><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">c</span></sup></i></span><span class="contentpasted0"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">amr-an</span></i></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></i></span><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">‘Amr-ACC’
is marked with accusative case (which is the case used for typical verbal objects).</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">ntiqaad-u zayd-in </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="contentpasted0"><sup><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">c</span></sup></span><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">amr-an</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">criticizing-NOM Zayd-GEN Amr-ACC</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">“Zayd’s criticizing Amr” (Fassi Fehri 1993: 223f)</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fassi Fehri, Abdelkader. 1993.</span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span class="contentpasted0"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Issues
in the structure of Arabic clauses and</span></i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">words</span></i></span><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">. Dordrecht: Kluwer</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thank you,</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="contentpasted0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Keren</span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Prof. Maria Koptjevskaja Tamm<br>
Dept. of linguistics, Stockholm university, 106 91, Stockholm, Sweden<br>
tel.: +46-8-16 26 20 (office)<br>
<a href="http://www.ling.su.se/tamm">www.ling.su.se/tamm</a><br>
tamm@ling.su.se<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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