<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Christian,<div><span lang="EN-US" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 18.4px;">Y. R. Chao argued that the arguments in Chinese are like the arguments of a mathematical function. He argued (1968:69-70) that Chinese clause structure is simply topic and comment, and “A corollary to the topic-comment nature of predication is that the direction of action in an action verb in the predicate need not go outward from subject to object. Even in an N-V-N´ sequence, such as [</span><span lang="EN-US" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 18.4px;">gǒu yǎo rén</span><span lang="EN-US" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 18.4px;"> (dog bite man)], it is not always certain that the action goes outward from N to N´.” (1968: 70). </span></div><div><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;"> </span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;">Chao (1955, 1959) also argued that word order is not determined by, and does not affect the interpretation of actor vs. non-actor; he said the clause is analogous to a function in logic: the argument is an argument of the function, and the truth value is unaffected by its position in the clause (1959:254). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;"><br></span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;">He used the terms “subject” for the topic and “object” for a reference phrase (regardless of the semantic role of the referent in the event), as in Chinese many sorts of semantic roles can appear after the verb (e.g. 'I eat rice’, ‘I eat restaurant’, 'I eat big bowl’,' I eat chopsticks’, 'this pot of rice eats ten people (can feed ten people), ‘He died father’ = 'he suffered the event of his father dying’,' fall rain CHANGE OF STATE’ = It is raining’. In all of these cases he would call the postverbal reference phrase the “object”.</span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;"><br></span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 14.2pt; font-size: medium; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; text-align: justify; text-indent: -14.2pt; line-height: 18.4px;"><span lang="EN-GB">Chao Yuen Ren. 1955[1976]. Notes on Chinese grammar and logic. In <i>Aspects of Chinese sociolinguistics: Essays by Yuen Ren Chao,</i> Anwar S. Dil (ed.), 237-249. Stanford: Stanford University Press.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 14.2pt; font-size: medium; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; text-align: justify; text-indent: -14.2pt; line-height: 18.4px;"><span lang="EN-GB"><span style="text-indent: -14.2pt;">Chao Yuen Ren. 1959[1976]. How Chinese logic operates. In</span><span style="text-indent: -14.2pt;"> </span><i style="text-indent: -14.2pt;">Aspects of Chinese sociolinguistics: Essays by Yuen Ren Chao,</i><span style="text-indent: -14.2pt;"> </span><span style="text-indent: -14.2pt;">Anwar S. Dil (ed.), 250 259. Stanford: Stanford University Press.</span><span style="text-indent: -14.2pt;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 14.2pt; font-size: medium; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; text-align: justify; text-indent: -14.2pt; line-height: 18.4px;"><span lang="EN-GB">Chao Yuen Ren. 1968. <i>A grammar of spoken Chinese</i>. Berkeley/Los Angeles: University of California Press.</span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;"><br></span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;">All the best,</span></p><p class="Paragraphindented" style="text-indent: 0cm; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 16.866667px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height: 18.4px;">Randy</span></p><div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">——</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Professor Randy J. LaPolla</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13.333333px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">（罗仁地)</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">, PhD FAHA </span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Center for Language Sciences</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Beijing Normal University at Zhuhai</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">, Guangdong</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">, China</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><a href="https://randylapolla.info/">https://randylapolla.info</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">ORCID ID: <span style="color: rgb(73, 74, 76); background-color: white;"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196</a> </span></span> </div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 15px;">邮编：519087</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路18号木铎楼A302</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">北京师范大学珠海校区</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">人文和社会科学高等研究院</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">语言科学研究中心 </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 22 Aug 2023, at 11:19 PM, Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div><p>I am sure that what I am about to do here is completely
inappropriate on this list. In the interest of improving
communication among us, allow me nevertheless to use the message
by Hans Götzsche as support: If you think you need to use the
(mathematical and logical) term 'argument' in a context dealing
with grammar, then please at least make it clear whether an
argument occupies a role in semantic relationality or a syntactic
function in valency. Just one example: English <i>dine</i> has
two semantic roles, the eater and the thing eaten (which may be
called, i.a., agent and patient). It has one dependent controlled
by its valency, taking the form of a subject and representing the
eater. How many arguments does it have?</p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 21.08.2023 um 08:03 schrieb Hans
Götzsche:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:EB072503-E747-4E5D-8654-5565EBE08BDD@ikp.aau.dk">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Begin forwarded message:<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Hans Götzsche
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:goetzsche@ikp.aau.dk"><goetzsche@ikp.aau.dk></a><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Re: [Lingtyp]
argument structure</b><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;">21 August 2023 at
15.44.46 CEST<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Vladimir Panov
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com"><panovmeister@gmail.com></a><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>
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space; line-break: after-white-space;">
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Dear Vladimir,</div>
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<br>
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allow me a late comment. I have no remarks on Christian
Lehman’s comment, so I shall only mention that the
notion of ‘argument’ in theoretical linguistics has, to
my knowledge, ‘slipped through the back door’, via
formal approaches, from mathematics, presumably 1865
(see *), and later computation theory; meaning</div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none">An independent variable
of a function</span><span style="font-style: normal;
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auto; font-variation-settings: normal; font-kerning:
none;">.</span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none">I first encountered the
technical use of the word
<i>argument</i> at my ‘first course in formal logic’
(many years ago), and the use of the term in
linguistics is one of the reasons why I decided to
develop ‘my own’ nomenclature in formal syntax. As is
well known the way we, as linguists, use the myriad of
technical terms depends on what club (guild,
brotherhood, you choose) we are members of, and taken
as a set of words covering all bits and pieces of (by
some called) “the language sciences” the set is full
of inconsistences, and sometimes contradictions. Thus,
it is not quite true that “we all use the term
“argument structure””, and I only use the word
<i>argument</i> in the context of formal logic. The
aim of my development mentioned above, which was
published in</span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none; background-color:
#ffffff"><b>Deviational Syntactic Structures</b></span><span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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<br>
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was to establish a nomenclature that was both consistent
and would be able to cover all language domains, from
speech sounds to semantics (but, so far, not pragmatics;
which I prefer to see as a matter of cultural
codifications). This was in line with the well known and
acknowledged Danish tradition in Theoretical Linguistics
(some scholars remember Rasmus Rask and Karl Verner, to
name a few) and it was based on ideas by Otto Jespersen
and Louis Hjelmslev – as for the formal systems – and
the empirical achievements of the grammarian Paul
Diderichsen. My suggestions were not all cheered by
Danish linguistists, but the formal system – comparable
to, e.g.,
<span style="font-kerning: none; color: rgb(14, 14, 14);
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(14, 14, 14);">
Montague grammar – was the first and only amalgamation
of Hjelmslev’s <i>Glossematics</i> and the
descriptive tradition of Danish syntax.</span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none"></span><br>
</div>
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normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
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background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-kerning: none">I once read a ‘Dear
Sir’ letter to a Danish newspaper in which the writer
offered the opinion (in translation): “why don’t
everybody use words the way I do; it would make
everything much easier”. But, of course, adopting such
a view would be impertinent.</span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none"></span><br>
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<span style="font-kerning: none">Best wishes,</span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none"></span><br>
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<span style="font-kerning: none">Hans Götzsche (MA,PhD)</span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none"><i>Former President,
NAL</i></span></div>
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<span style="font-kerning: none"><i>Nordic Association
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<span style="font-kerning: none">Emeritus Associate
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<span style="font-kerning: none">Emerito Professore
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normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
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17px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-stretch: normal;
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust:
none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian:
normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing:
auto; font-variation-settings: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(14, 14, 14);">
<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 14px;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings:
normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal;">*</span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/144141/what-is-the-sense-of-using-word-argument-for-inputs-of-a-function">https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/144141/what-is-the-sense-of-using-word-argument-for-inputs-of-a-function</a></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-stretch: normal;
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Times; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position:
normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings:
normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 233);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 233);">
<span style="text-decoration: underline ; font-kerning:
none"><a href="https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/144141/what-is-the-sense-of-using-word-argument-for-inputs-of-a-function" moz-do-not-send="true">terminology - What is the
sense of using word "argument", for inputs of a
function? - English Language & Usage Stack
Exchange<span style="font-style: normal;
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none; color: rgb(0, 0, 233);"></span></a></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-stretch: normal;
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Times; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
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normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
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normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 233);
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-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 233);">
<span style="text-decoration: underline ; font-kerning:
none">† <a href="https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/deviational-syntactic-structures-9781472587961/" moz-do-not-send="true">
<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; font-kerning:
none; color: rgb(0, 0, 233);">https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/deviational-syntactic-structures-9781472587961/</span></a></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 19 Aug 2023, at 12.11, Vladimir Panov
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com"><panovmeister@gmail.com></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dear colleagues,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have a very general question to you. We
all use the term "argument structure" and we
are used to semantic labels like A, S or P or
syntactic labels like subject, direct and
indirect object. Many linguistis, especially
those adhering to "formal" approaches, would
argue that there are also adjuncts which are
not arguments.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is anybody aware of any attempts to
seriously challenge the adequacy of the very
notion of "arguments" in general? After all,
ir seems that there are languages which do not
encode or encode little the "roles" of named
entities (noun phrases, pronouns etc.)
anywhere in utterance, especially in
colloquial language, or encode entities like
the addressee rather than the agent or the
patient. My intuition tells me that there
might be such critical works in the traditions
of usage-based linguistics, interactional
linguistics, conversation analysis or
linguistic anthropology but I have found very
little. Actually, I've only discovered the
very recent Heine's book in which he argues
for a broader understanding of argument
structure which includes speech situation
participants - a very interestinng view. So am
looking for more research in this spirit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm sorry if it sounds a bit confusing but
if anything like that comes to you mind I'll
be happy if you can share it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Vladimir Panov</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>I condemn the Russian agression in
Ukraine</i></div>
</div>
</div>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br><p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
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