<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>I would find "event clause" vs "manner clause" (hence, "event perception" <i>vs "</i>manner perception") equally acceptable. She saw the event taking place <i>vs </i>she saw in which way the event took place.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Riccardo<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Christian Lehmann <<a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de">christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de</a>> escreveu no dia domingo, 27/08/2023 à(s) 19:14:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Agreed. I was extrapolating from the Cabecar facts; but in fact,
the formal development of a functional contrast in terms of a
markedness opposition is a matter of every language's grammar.<br>
</p>
<div>Am 27.08.2023 um 11:02 schrieb Juergen
Bohnemeyer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">I would
think of it more in terms of iconicity than in terms of
markedness:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Suppose the
grammar of a particular language provides for both finite
and nonfinite complements.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Suppose
furthermore that the members of the speech community
frequently communicate about both event perception and
propositional inference.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">In this
situation, I would assume that nonfinite complements become
an attractor for the event perception meaning, whereas
finite complements become an attractor for the propositional
inference meaning.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Why? Perhaps
the simplest explanation would be that propositional
inference complements have independent time reference,
whereas event perception complements refer to events that
necessarily unfold contemporaneously with the perception
event. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">One could
also say that the independent vs. dependent time reference
contrast is simply a special case of a broader contrast,
whereby event perception is conceptually simpler than
propositional inference.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Best –
Juergen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen
Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(0,120,212)">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(5,99,193)">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black">Office
hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom
(Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light
Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="DE"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="DE"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div id="m_5382891767956727875mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Christian
Lehmann <a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank"><christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 18:49<br>
<b>To: </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer
<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank"><jb77@buffalo.edu></a>,
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] semantics of object
clauses of perception verbs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p>Thank you very much, that is sufficient for present
purposes (although alternative terms from the floor remain
welcome). I doubt, though, that every use of the 'that'
variant of this construction conveys an inference. It
would rather appear to be the unmarked variant, such that
subordination by something like 'how' is the marked
variant insisting on event perception.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Am
27.08.2023 um 10:43 schrieb Juergen Bohnemeyer:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Yes.
Personally, I like ‘event perception’ vs.
‘propositional inference’. ‘Event perception’ for the
“direct” case has certainly been used elsewhere,
though I would have to google it to be sure where. See
for example here:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><a href="https://ub01.uni-tuebingen.de/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10900/47121/pdf/Maienborn_2011_Event_semantics.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y" target="_blank">https://ub01.uni-tuebingen.de/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10900/47121/pdf/Maienborn_2011_Event_semantics.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Best –
Juergen</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen
Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY
14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(0,120,212)">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(5,99,193)">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black">Office
hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom
(Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The
Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">-- </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="DE"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" lang="DE"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div id="m_5382891767956727875mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Lingtyp <a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on behalf of
Christian Lehmann <a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank">
<christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 18:33<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp] semantics of object
clauses of perception verbs</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p>Please: what are the technical terms for the
semantic contrast between 'she saw that the
foreigner passed by' and 'she saw how the foreigner
passed by'? (I just found it in Cabecar.)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Thanks in advance,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Christian<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">--
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt">Prof. em. Dr.
Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<table cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Tel.:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">+49/361/2113417</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">E-Post:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Web:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt">Prof. em. Dr. Christian
Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<table cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Tel.:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">+49/361/2113417<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">E-Post:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt">Web:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></p>
<table style="font-size:80%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>Tel.:</td>
<td>+49/361/2113417</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>E-Post:</td>
<td><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Web:</td>
<td><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
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