<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Jianming,<div>I wish you would read my papers and stop saying I am arguing that Chinese is solely topic-comment.</div><div><br></div><div>All the best,</div><div>Randy<br><div>
<meta charset="UTF-8"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">——</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Professor Randy J. LaPolla</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13.333333015441895px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">（罗仁地)</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">, PhD FAHA </span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Center for Language Sciences</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">Beijing Normal University at Zhuhai</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;">A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">, Guangdong</span><span style="font-size: 14px;">, China</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><a href="https://randylapolla.info">https://randylapolla.info</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">ORCID ID:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="color: rgb(73, 74, 76); background-color: white;"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196</a> </span></span> </div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 15px;">邮编：519087</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路18号木铎楼A302</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">北京师范大学珠海校区</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">人文和社会科学高等研究院</span><br style="font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">语言科学研究中心 </span></div></div><div><br></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 2 Sep 2023, at 12:16 PM, Wu Jianming <wu.jianming2011@hotmail.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Randy</span>，</div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"> As I always mentioned, the topic-comment and SVO structures can coexist in Chinese language and they are differently-oriented. However, when you emphasize a topic-comment approach only, you may potentially udnerestimate the underlying logic and semantics that play a crucial role in accurately interpreting and expressing Chinese ideas.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Cambria, serif;"> (</span><span lang="EN-US">There was a reason why Romans borrowed<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>“<span lang="EN-US">grammatik</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Cambria, serif;">ḗ</span>”<span lang="EN-US"> and word classes from Greeks).</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"> When you mention<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>“<span lang="EN-US">a fixed AVP structure</span>”<span lang="EN-US">, I suppose you mentioned the coginitvie structure. Yet it is of course fixed. The encoding of human language always tends to preserve cognitive experience as much as possible (Giv</span>ó<span lang="EN-US">n 1985:189). In the sentences<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">我喝咖啡</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">" (I drink coffee),<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">"</span>一锅饭吃十个人<span lang="EN-US">" (One pot of rice feeds ten people) and "</span>这匹马骑过许多人<span lang="EN-US">" (this horse has been ridden by many people), The differentiation of semantic roles on either side of the verb is a functional similarity found in other languages with agreement or case markers. While this evidence may seem insignificant, it provides a formal basis for such means of differentiation, esp. in the isolating languages.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"> However, the latter two sentences of PVA order are barely encountered in corpora or everyday language use (almost none). And they can not be used to show that Chinese is solely topic-comment. I think it is not right to prioritize a single framework over others in all circumstances.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">Jianming Wu</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">Institute of Linguistics</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">Shanghai International Studies University</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">Windows<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>版<span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-US"><span lang="EN-US">邮件</span></span></a></span>发送</div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian; border: medium; padding: 0cm;"><b>发件人<span lang="EN-US">:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">Randy J. LaPolla</a><br></span><b>发送时间<span lang="EN-US">:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US">2023</span>年<span lang="EN-US">9</span>月<span lang="EN-US">1</span>日<span lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>10:11<br></span><b>收件人<span lang="EN-US">:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:wu.jianming2011@hotmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">Wu Jianming</a><br></span><b>抄送<span lang="EN-US">:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">David Gil</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></span><b>主题<span lang="EN-US">:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US">Re: [Lingtyp] argument structure</span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Jianming,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">If you use examples like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">‘<span lang="EN-US">I drink coffee</span>’<span lang="EN-US">, of course the animate referent will be seen as the actor, but this is not evidence for<o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">You say <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">" In addition, text frequency counts on word order patterns alone may provide an inaccurate understanding of word order in Mandarin Chinese, as word order can be influenced by discourse-pragmatic factors and cognitive-semantic considerations</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">”<span lang="EN-US">,<o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US">but you cannot disregard discourse-pragmatic and cognitive-semantic considerations. If they can change the understanding of N V N</span>’<span lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>clauses, then it means there is no syntactic constraint on the interpretation of the clause. Also, this is very much a matter of natural data, not made-up sentences, so frequency counts also can</span>’<span lang="EN-US">t be discounted.</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> This order reflects the typical conceptual structure of events where there is an agent performing an action on an object or patient.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">The fact that actors are more often topics is well-known, and this can of course influence the interpretation, but whether a language has grammaticalised syntactic constraints on the interpretation of the roles of referents has to be shown. You have given examples that show there is clearly not a grammaticalised constraint on the interpretation of the roles of referents, as the nature of the referent overrides the tendency for the actor to be topic.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">All the best,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">Randy<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span style="">——</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="">Professor Randy J. LaPolla</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">（罗仁地</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="">, PhD FAHA </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="">Center for Language Sciences</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="">Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="">Beijing Normal University at Zhuhai</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="">A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City, Guangdong, China</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://randylapolla.info/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://randylapolla.info</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">ORCID ID:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; background: white;">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; color: rgb(73, 74, 76); background: white;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span style="font-size: 11.5pt;">邮编：<span lang="EN-US">519087<br></span>广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路<span lang="EN-US">18</span>号木铎楼<span lang="EN-US">A302<br></span>北京师范大学珠海校区<span lang="EN-US"><br></span>人文和社会科学高等研究院<span lang="EN-US"><br></span>语言科学研究中心<span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">On 25 Aug 2023, at 8:37 PM, Wu Jianming <<a href="mailto:wu.jianming2011@hotmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">wu.jianming2011@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear David and colleagues</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">，<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> The N-V-N structure in Mandarin is indeed used for transitive encodings (or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">“<b><span lang="EN-GB">formal concept</span></b>”<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>in Martin</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">s term). In this structure, the verb is placed between two nouns (N1-V-N2), representing the action being performed on the object. For example, consider the sentence "</span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">我喝咖啡</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">" (w</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">ǒ<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>h</span>ē<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>k</span>ā<span lang="EN-GB">f</span>ē<span lang="EN-GB">i), which means "I drink coffee." This structure allows for a concise and clear way of expressing transitive actions in Mandarin.</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> However, for the sake of discourse continuity and conciseness, the same N-V-N structure or transitive encodings can be used in :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">一锅饭吃十个人</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>y</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">ī<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>gu</span>ō<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>f</span>à<span lang="EN-GB">n ch</span>ī<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>sh</span>í<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>g</span>è<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>r</span>é<span lang="EN-GB">n, Literal Translation: One pot of rice eat ten people; Better Translation: One pot of rice feeds ten people. Or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">这匹马骑过许多人</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>zh</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">è<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>p</span>ǐ<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>m</span>ǎ<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>q</span>í<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>le x</span>ǔ<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>du</span>ō<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>r</span>é<span lang="EN-GB">n; Literal Translation: This horse rode many people; Better Translation: Many people have ridden this horse. The direct translation of the two sentences might not capture the intended meaning efficiently. It is also particularly used when the emphasis is on the action and its direct object, rather than on the subject.</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> When Mandarin speakers are asked to describe the propositional meanings of the two sentences, they use the canonical SVO/AVP order, because the SVO/AVP word order in Mandarin Chinese reflects a cognitive-semantic iconicity that aligns with the sequence of transitive events in real-world situations. This canonical word order is often used to ensure accurate and natural communication of the intended meaning<b>. In other words , A and P, as semantic roles, can never be symmetric but always asymmetric in cognition (but not in surface forms).</b> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> In addition, text frequency counts on word order patterns alone may provide an inaccurate understanding of word order in Mandarin Chinese, as word order can be influenced by discourse-pragmatic factors and cognitive-semantic considerations. But they are not the same things. The basic AVP (agent-verb-patient) order in Mandarin Chinese is often aligned or sequenced with prototypical transitive events in the conceptualized world. This order reflects the typical conceptual structure of events where there is an agent performing an action on an object or patient.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> Therefore, in my view, while Mandarin Chinese does have some flexibility in word order, it is not completely free.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Best,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Jianming</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Sent from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Mail</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for Windows</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">David Gil</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>2023</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">年</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">8</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">月</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">25</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">日</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17:20<br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Lingtyp] argument structure</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><p><span lang="EN-GB">Dear all,</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">Some additional data: In my ongoing cross-linguistic Association Experiment, I tested 4 sentences of N V N structure to see if they permitted Pat V Ag interpretations, in (among others) three Sinitic varieties. (Of these 4 sentences, 2 were semantically symmetric while 2 were asymmetric.) For each variety I tested approximately 30 subjects. The availability of such Pat V Ag interpretations was as follows:</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">Mandarin (Beijing): 8%<br></span><span style="font-family: Meiryo, sans-serif;">
</span><span lang="EN-GB">Cantonese (HK): 7%</span><span style="font-family: Meiryo, sans-serif;">
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><br>Mandarin (overseas Chinese, Jakarta): 18%</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">What these results show is that while there is a strong disfavouring of Pat V Ag interpretations in such constructions, they are nevertheless available.</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">Best,</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">David</span></p><div><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">On 23/08/2023 18:24, Chao Li wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><div id="m_-197487478029998947m_-3494078813807167779gmail-:36m"><div id="m_-197487478029998947m_-3494078813807167779gmail-:65t"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear Randy,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">You have cited Y. R. Chao a few times and apparently you adopt the position that Chinese can be sufficiently explained with the notions of topic and comment. I do not think that anyone working on Chinese would deny the importance of the notions of topic and comment in describing and explaining the functioning of Chinese. Also, probably no one working on Chinese would deny the fact that Chinese exhibits flexibility in word order, as shown by the examples you cited in your messages. However, IF your position is that Chinese (essentially) has no argument structure or that word order has no place in Chinese grammar, Jianming (as can be seen from his earlier discussion with you), I, and very likely many others would think that this position is too extreme. Word order (and argument structure) actually has an important place in Chinese grammar. Otherwise, why (1) has to be interpreted as "the cat is/was chasing the dog" (even though in the real world cats are timid and it is more likely for a dog to chase a cat than for a cat to chase a dog), why (2b) is odd or bad (particularly when previous clauses in the same Chinese sentence, as can be viewed by clicking on the link, remain unchanged), or why 'that girl' in (3), not '(the) flower' or 'flowers' in the same sentence, has to be understood as the entity that was consumed? All the three examples contain a transitive verb and in spirit they are all of the "N-V-N</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">’<span lang="EN-GB">" format. </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">(1) M</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">ā<span lang="EN-GB">o z</span>à<span lang="EN-GB">i zhu</span>ī<span lang="EN-GB"> g</span>ǒ<span lang="EN-GB">u. </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> cat Progressive chase dog</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> 'The cat is/was chasing the dog.'</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">(2) a. ... w</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">ǒ<span lang="EN-GB"> h</span>ē<span lang="EN-GB">-le n</span>à<span lang="EN-GB"> b</span>ē<span lang="EN-GB">i gu</span>ǒ<span lang="EN-GB">zh</span>ī<span lang="EN-GB">. </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> I drink-Perfective that cup juice</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> '...I drank that cup of juice.' (</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://cn.nytimes.com/style/20170209/the-stir-fried-tomatoes-and-eggs-my-chinese-mother-made/zh-hant/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://cn.nytimes.com/style/20170209/the-stir-fried-tomatoes-and-eggs-my-chinese-mother-made/zh-hant/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> b. ??... n</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">à<span lang="EN-GB"> b</span>ē<span lang="EN-GB">i gu</span>ǒ<span lang="EN-GB">zh</span>ī<span lang="EN-GB"> h</span>ē<span lang="EN-GB">-le w</span>ǒ<span lang="EN-GB">. </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> that cup juice drink-Perfective I</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">(3) Hu</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">ā<span lang="EN-GB"> ch</span>ī<span lang="EN-GB">-le n</span>à<span lang="EN-GB"> n</span>ǚ<span lang="EN-GB">h</span>á<span lang="EN-GB">i. (name of a movie)</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> flower eat-Perfective that girl</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Best regards,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Chao</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 11:52</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">PM Randy LaPolla <</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">> wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Thanks Christian,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Chao</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">’<span lang="EN-GB">s point in using the analogy of the function in logic is just to explain how the position of reference phrases in the clause is not related to semantic role, as it is in English, so N-V-N</span>’<span lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(actually [Topic N]-[Comment V-N</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">]) can be almost any set of semantic roles, depending only on contextual factors for their interpretation, as long as the addressee can create a meaning from it. The examples I gave are only a few of the possibilities. This is also why he argued there is no passive/active distinction in Chinese. It is a matter of inferring the direction of action from the overall context/situation. </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">It is common now for us to assign roles to positions of arguments of functions, but Chao was assuming (explicitly) that the order of the arguments of the function does not influence the interpretation. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">All the best,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Randy </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">On 23 Aug 2023, at 9:44 AM, Christian Lehmann <</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">> wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Randy,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><p><span lang="EN-GB">thanks for this report. There would be no point in criticizing Chao, doubtless an eminent grammarian. However, it does not seem that his use of the term 'argument' throws much light on Mandarin grammar. Given your examples, nothing, of course, prevents you from defining a function die(x, y) such that x is a being touched by the death and y is the dying being. You then get a multiplicity of functions die(v,w), where v and w play different roles. I am not sure that this use of the word 'argument' helps in understanding how the Chinese constructions work. - On the other hand, the analysis in terms of topic and comment seems to have gained foot in the literature. It does not seem to necessarily involve the function-argument analysis.</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">Best, Christian</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Am 22.08.2023 um 18:52 schrieb Randy J. LaPolla:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Christian,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">Y. R. Chao argued that the arguments in Chinese are like the arguments of a mathematical function. He argued (1968:69-70) that Chinese clause structure is simply topic and comment, and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">“<span lang="EN-US">A corollary to the topic-comment nature of predication is that the direction of action in an action verb in the predicate need not go outward from subject to object. Even in an N-V-N</span>´<span lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>sequence, such as [go</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">̌</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">u ya</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">̌</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;">o rén (dog bite man)], it is not always certain that the action goes outward from N to N</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">´<span lang="EN-US">.</span>”<span lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(1968: 70). <o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><p><span lang="EN-US">Chao (1955, 1959) also argued that word order is not determined by, and does not affect the interpretation of actor vs. non-actor; he said the clause is analogous to a function in logic: the argument is an argument of the function, and the truth value is unaffected by its position in the clause (1959:254). </span></p><div><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p><span lang="EN-US">He used the terms<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>“<span lang="EN-US">subject</span>”<span lang="EN-US">for the topic and</span>“<span lang="EN-US">object</span>”<span lang="EN-US"> for a reference phrase (regardless of the semantic role of the referent in the event), as in Chinese many sorts of semantic roles can appear after the verb (e.g. 'I eat rice</span>’<span lang="EN-US">,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>‘<span lang="EN-US">I eat restaurant</span>’<span lang="EN-US">, 'I eat big bowl</span>’<span lang="EN-US">,' I eat chopsticks</span>’<span lang="EN-US">, 'this pot of rice eats ten people (can feed ten people),<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>‘<span lang="EN-US">He died father</span>’<span lang="EN-US">= 'he suffered the event of his father dying</span>’<span lang="EN-US">,' fall rain CHANGE OF STATE</span>’<span lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>= It is raining</span>’<span lang="EN-US">. In all of these cases he would call the postverbal reference phrase the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>“<span lang="EN-US">object</span>”<span lang="EN-US">.</span></p><div><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Chao Yuen Ren. 1955[1976]. Notes on Chinese grammar and logic. In <i>Aspects of Chinese sociolinguistics: Essays by Yuen Ren Chao,</i> Anwar S. Dil (ed.), 237-249. Stanford: Stanford University Press.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Chao Yuen Ren. 1959[1976]. How Chinese logic operates. In <i>Aspects of Chinese sociolinguistics: Essays by Yuen Ren Chao,</i> Anwar S. Dil (ed.), 250 259. Stanford: Stanford University Press. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Chao Yuen Ren. 1968. <i>A grammar of spoken Chinese</i>. Berkeley/Los Angeles: University of California Press.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p><span lang="EN-US">All the best,</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">Randy</span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">——</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Professor Randy J. LaPolla</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">（罗仁地</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">), PhD FAHA </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Center for Language Sciences</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Beijing Normal University at Zhuhai</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City, Guangdong, China</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://randylapolla.info/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://randylapolla.info</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">ORCID ID: </span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6100-6196</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">邮编：</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">519087<br></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">18</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">号木铎楼</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">A302<br></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">北京师范大学珠海校区</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">人文和社会科学高等研究院</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">语言科学研究中心</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">On 22 Aug 2023, at 11:19 PM, Christian Lehmann</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><p><span lang="EN-GB">I am sure that what I am about to do here is completely inappropriate on this list. In the interest of improving communication among us, allow me nevertheless to use the message by Hans Götzsche as support: If you think you need to use the (mathematical and logical) term 'argument' in a context dealing with grammar, then please at least make it clear whether an argument occupies a role in semantic relationality or a syntactic function in valency. Just one example: English<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>dine</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>has two semantic roles, the eater and the thing eaten (which may be called, i.a., agent and patient). It has one dependent controlled by its valency, taking the form of a subject and representing the eater. How many arguments does it have?</span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB">----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Am 21.08.2023 um 08:03 schrieb Hans Götzsche:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Begin forwarded message:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Hans Götzsche<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:goetzsche@ikp.aau.dk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><goetzsche@ikp.aau.dk></span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] argument structure</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Date:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">21 August 2023 at 15.44.46 CEST</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">To:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Vladimir Panov<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><panovmeister@gmail.com></span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear Vladimir,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">allow me a late comment. I have no remarks on Christian Lehman</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">’<span lang="EN-GB">s comment, so I shall only mention that the notion of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>‘<span lang="EN-GB">argument</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">in theoretical linguistics has, to my knowledge,</span>‘<span lang="EN-GB">slipped through the back door</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">, via formal approaches, from mathematics, presumably 1865 (see *), and later computation theory; meaning</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">An independent variable of a function.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">I first encountered the technical use of the word<i>argument</i>at my<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">‘<span lang="EN-GB">first course in formal logic</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">(many years ago), and the use of the term in linguistics is one of the reasons why I decided to develop</span>‘<span lang="EN-GB">my own</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">nomenclature in formal syntax. As is well known the way we, as linguists, use the myriad of technical terms depends on what club (guild, brotherhood, you choose) we are members of, and taken as a set of words covering all bits and pieces of (by some called)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>“<span lang="EN-GB">the language sciences</span>”<span lang="EN-GB">the set is full of inconsistences, and sometimes contradictions. Thus, it is not quite true that</span>“<span lang="EN-GB">we all use the term<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>“<span lang="EN-GB">argument structure</span>””<span lang="EN-GB">, and I only use the word<i>argument</i>in the context of formal logic. The aim of my development mentioned above, which was published in</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Deviational Syntactic Structures</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">†</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">was to establish a nomenclature that was both consistent and would be able to cover all language domains, from speech sounds to semantics (but, so far, not pragmatics; which I prefer to see as a matter of cultural codifications). This was in line with the well known and acknowledged Danish tradition in Theoretical Linguistics (some scholars remember Rasmus Rask and Karl Verner, to name a few) and it was based on ideas by Otto Jespersen and Louis Hjelmslev<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">–<span lang="EN-GB">as for the formal systems</span>–<span lang="EN-GB">and the empirical achievements of the grammarian Paul Diderichsen. My suggestions were not all cheered by Danish linguistists, but the formal system</span>–<span lang="EN-GB">comparable to, e.g., Montague grammar<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>–<span lang="EN-GB">was the first and only amalgamation of Hjelmslev</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">s<i>Glossematics</i>and the descriptive tradition of Danish syntax.</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">I once read a</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">‘<span lang="EN-GB">Dear Sir</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">letter to a Danish newspaper in which the writer offered the opinion (in translation):</span>“<span lang="EN-GB">why don</span>’<span lang="EN-GB">t everybody use words the way I do; it would make everything much easier</span>”<span lang="EN-GB">. But, of course, adopting such a view would be impertinent.</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Best wishes,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Hans Götzsche (MA,PhD)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Former President, NAL</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Nordic Association of Linguists</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Emeritus Associate Professor</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Director, Center for Linguistics</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Aalborg University</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Rendsburggade 14</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">9000 Aalborg</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">DENMARK</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:goetzsche@ikp.aau.dk" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">goetzsche@ikp.aau.dk</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.cfl.hum.aau/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">www.cfl.hum.aau</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Dr Hans Goetzsche</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Emerito Professore Universitario</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Via S. Apollinare 19,2</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">36063 Marostica (VI)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">ITALIA</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">*</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/144141/what-is-the-sense-of-using-word-argument-for-inputs-of-a-function" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/144141/what-is-the-sense-of-using-word-argument-for-inputs-of-a-function</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/144141/what-is-the-sense-of-using-word-argument-for-inputs-of-a-function" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">terminology - What is the sense of using word "argument", for inputs of a function? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">†</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/deviational-syntactic-structures-9781472587961/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/deviational-syntactic-structures-9781472587961/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">On 19 Aug 2023, at 12.11, Vladimir Panov</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><panovmeister@gmail.com></span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear colleagues,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">I have a very general question to you. We all use the term "argument structure" and we are used to semantic labels like A, S or P or syntactic labels like subject, direct and indirect object. Many linguistis, especially those adhering to "formal" approaches, would argue that there are also adjuncts which are not arguments.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Is anybody aware of any attempts to seriously challenge the adequacy of the very notion of "arguments" in general? After all, ir seems that there are languages which do not encode or encode little the "roles" of named entities (noun phrases, pronouns etc.) anywhere in utterance, especially in colloquial language, or encode entities like the addressee rather than the agent or the patient. My intuition tells me that there might be such critical works in the traditions of usage-based linguistics, interactional linguistics, conversation analysis or linguistic anthropology but I have found very little. Actually, I've only discovered the very recent Heine's book in which he argues for a broader understanding of argument structure which includes speech situation participants - a very interestinng view. So am looking for more research in this spirit.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">I'm sorry if it sounds a bit confusing but if anything like that comes to you mind I'll be happy if you can share it.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Best,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Vladimir Panov</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">I condemn the Russian agression in Ukraine</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br><br></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">_______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Lingtyp mailing list</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span></a></span></pre></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">--</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><p><span lang="EN-GB">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>Rudolfstr. 4<br>99092 Erfurt<br>Deutschland</span></p><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Tel.:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">+49/361/2113417</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">E-Post:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Web:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; color: white;">_______________________________________________</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>Lingtyp mailing list<br></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">--</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><p><span lang="EN-GB">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>Rudolfstr. 4<br>99092 Erfurt<br>Deutschland</span></p><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Tel.:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">+49/361/2113417</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">E-Post:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Web:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; color: white;">_______________________________________________</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>Lingtyp mailing list<br></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt;">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">_______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Lingtyp mailing list</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span></a></span></pre></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">-- </span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">David Gil</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Senior Scientist (Associate)</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Email: </span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-GB">gil@shh.mpg.de</span></a></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB">Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></pre><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: DengXian;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br><a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></span></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>