<div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div>Dear Pun Ho Lui, dear colleagues.</div><div><br></div><div>I wanted to come back to what David wrote in one of the first answers. </div><div><br></div><div>In this thread, there were mentions of constructions that are usually considered separately - <i>summarizing</i> constructions (as the example from <span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">Mongsen Ao, probably also Japhug and Adamawa) and <i>inclusory</i> constructions (as the explicative Mwotlap construction), to which Alexandre François added what looks to me as an unmistakably <i>associative plural</i> construction (his recognitional construction in Mwotlap). I have no knowledge about summarizing constructions, but both inclusory constructions and associative plurals are of course very common cross-linguistically. To the reference to Linchtenber on inclusory constructions in Austronesian, I would add at least Ruth Singer's 2001 survey of them in Australia or discussions of <i>dedicated </i>inclusory pronouns in Mande languages - but of course many other languages also have these. </span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">***</span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">Now, on the one hand, we see, e.g. from Alexandre's examples, that the three types of constructions can be morphosyntactically similar, at least to some extent. Language-internally, the boundaries between them may be fuzzy, and certainly not all typologists would agree to draw them in the same way (if they would want to draw them, in the first place). So - probably unlike David? - I think that it may make sense to survey them together, as has in fact been going on in this thread, to my view. On the other hand, they may also be completely unrelated, or only some of them may be present in an individual language. </span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">In other words - now very much following David (I think) - I believe that, while being prepared to see the three constructions to be formally related in some or many languages, or even considering them as one empirical domain of investigation, one would want to remain very sensitive to the potential differences between these constructions, based on signature properties proposed in earlier of each of these constructions separately. </span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">To give just one example, as David pointed out, a very special property of inclusory construction, something that is often considered to be definitional for them, is that there is an unexpected referential property of "strict inclusion" - the reference of the inclusory element includes, <i>and</i> is wider, than the reference of the "added" phrase ("we with <a href="http://you.sg">you.sg</a>" meaning '<a href="http://you.sg">you.sg</a> and I'). Another special property, not mentioned by David (probably because it is too obvious), is that in the vast majority of cases, the inclusory element is either a plural pronoun or plural index on the verb. </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">Associative plurals have their own signature properties (some of which are briefly referred to in Alexandre François' detailed reply), and probably summarizing constructions also have some of their own, which I am unaware of because of my limited knowledge of them. </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">Fuzzy as the boundaries may be in individual languages, to me, these properties are not just part of arbitrary "etic" categories but reflect a certain internal logic of the functional domain in question. If one does not try to keep an eye on these properties, one runs a risk of confusion. </span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">As an example of what seems to me to be a confusion, your own initial examples would not, to me, constitute exemplary cases of summarizing constructions - none of them contains a lexical numeral; moreover, arguably, they all can be interpreted as extension of inclusory constructions. I am aware of the fact that they contradict one or both of the properties that I considered signature for inclusory pronouns; but I think many would agree they are not prototypical summarizing constructions, either. As a result, some people, based on your examples, provided examples of inclusory constructions; while David, based on your definition, discarded contributions as not directly related to your query.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">(Personally, I think this is a result of your equating number marking with numerals, and I do not know whether the studies you refer to for "summarizing" numerals explicitly license this. </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">Again, I do agree that it might be a meaningful enterprise to consider all ways of expressing cardinal numerosity ('two' and dual, 'three' and trial) in your study, but one should be prepared to face a very heterogeneous range of morphosyntactic constructions.) </span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif">Michael </span></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">вс, 10 сент. 2023 г. в 22:14, Lora Litvinova <<a href="mailto:loravlitvinova@gmail.com">loravlitvinova@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-family:"Doulos SIL""><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Dear all,<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Kugama, an Adamawa
language of Nigeria (ISO 639-3: kow; Glottocode: kuga1239), has noun phrases
that also summarize the number of elements involved in nominal coordination, see
examples below. Structurally, these phrases are possessive constructions with a
numeral as a head and a possessive pronominal as a modifier. More information
about these constructions can be found in my PhD dissertation (Litvinova 2023)
that will be available online after the defense in December 2023.<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">(1)<span> </span>Ɔ̀zūrúwā<sup> <span> </span></sup>ɗéè <span> </span>Lúkpɛ̂wà
<span> </span>à <span> </span>Bɛ̀nā<span> </span><span> </span>tì
<span> </span>sɛ́ɛ́=kī</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Ozuruwa<span> </span>CONJ<span> </span>Luikpewa<span> </span>COM<span> </span>Bena<span> </span><span>P</span>ROG<span> </span>fight=NMLZ<span> </span><span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> ní<sup>L</sup>sá̰ā̰=<sup>L</sup>=rī=<sup>L</sup>=rē<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> three=GEN=POSS=GEN=3PL.HUM.POSS.ALIEN<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> ‘Ozuruwa, Luikpewa and Bena are fighting. All three of them.’<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span> </span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">(2)<span> </span>ā <span> </span>kā=tí <span> </span>dìŋ=<sup>L <span> </span></sup>kísā <span> </span>ɗéè
<span> </span>dìŋ<span></span>=<sup>L <span> </span></sup>zɛ᷇m<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> 1SG<span> </span>see=PFV <span> </span>tree=GEN baobab CONJ <span> </span>tree=GEN tamarind<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> à <span> </span>dìŋ=<sup>L
<span> </span></sup>nɔ̄rī <span> </span>à <span> </span>dìŋ=<sup>L <span> </span></sup>gbɛ̀lɛ́<sup>L <span> </span></sup>tì
<span> </span>gɛ̀pí=ɛ̄<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> COM <span> </span>tree=GEN shea <span> </span>COM
<span> </span>tree=GEN gbele_tree <span> </span>PROG <span></span>grow=NMLZ</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> ɓáā=<sup>L <span> </span></sup>háákī<span> </span></span><span lang="IS" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">ní<sup>L</sup>hɛ̰̄=</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><sup><span>L<span></span></span></sup><span lang="IS">=rɛ̂</span><sup><span><span></span></span></sup></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> in=GEN <span> </span>farm <span> </span>four=GEN=</span><span lang="FR" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">3PL.NHUM.POSS.ALIEN<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> ‘I saw a baobab tree, a tamarind tree, a shea tree and a <i>gbele</i> tree (the species of this tree is
unknown) growing in the farm. All four of them.’</span><span lang="FR" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span> </span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Reference: Litvinova, Lora. 2023. A
grammatical analysis and documentation of Kugama (Wam), an Adamawa language of
Nigeria. Paris: INALCO PhD thesis<span></span></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Best wishes,</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Lora</span></font><span></span></p>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 8:50 AM Pun Ho Lui <<a href="mailto:luiph001@gmail.com" target="_blank">luiph001@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Dear All,<div><br></div><div>Haspelmath (2007) and Croft (2022) discussed a coordinating construction in which a numeral “summarizes” the number of referents in a list. There are different strategies in which the numeral behaves this way, e.g., a free numeral (1); a dual affix on a coordinand (2); a dual pronoun in apposition with the list+verb with dual marker (3). These numeral may be mono-syndetic or bi-syndatic.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-size:11pt;font-weight:700">(1)</span><span style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-size:11pt"> Zaozou</span></div><div><div title="Page 155"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700">ŋu55</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700">-mu55 na53 </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700">phiɛ</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700">33
</span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT">1-PL[EXCL] two father_and_child </span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT">“we two (exclusive), my daughter and I.” (Li, 2020)</span></p><div><br></div><div>(2) Kham </div><div>
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<div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Times">syar sono:h pusum-ni </span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Times">louse and flea-</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Times">DL
</span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Times">‘the louse and the flea’ (Watters, 2004)</span></p><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>
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<div><p><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">(3) </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;font-style:italic">Mapudungu<br></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT">(iñché) eymi inchiu i-y-u
</span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT"> I you:</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT">SG </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT">we:</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT">DU </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT">eat-</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT">IND</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT">-1</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT">NONSG</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT">-</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT">DU</span></p><p><span style="font-family:ArialMT"><font size="1"> </font></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT">‘You and I ate.’ </span></p><div><font face="Arial"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial">Languages with this construction I know are Zaozou, Kham, <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:italic">Mapudungu, </span><span lang="EN-US">Alto Perené<b>, </b></span><span lang="EN-US">Bangla<b>, </b>Cantonese<b>, </b>Mandarin<b>, </b></span><span lang="EN-US">Papuan
Malay<b>, </b></span><span lang="EN-US">Yakut<b>, </b></span>
</font><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US">Inari
Saami, <u></u><u></u></span><span lang="EN-US">Mongolian, </span><span lang="EN-US">Classical
Tibetan, </span><span lang="EN-US">Huallaga
Quechua, </span><span lang="EN-US">Wardaman, </span><span lang="EN-US">Khanty, </span><span lang="EN-US">Vedic
Sanskrit, </span><span lang="EN-US">Mparntwe Arrernte, </span><span lang="EN-US">Daga, </span><span lang="EN-US">Mapudungu, </span><span lang="EN-US">Enets, </span><span lang="EN-US">Kham and </span><span lang="EN-US">Hualapai</span></font></p><div><br></div><div>I am wondering if there are other languages sharing similar constructions.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you.</div><div><br></div><div>Warmest,</div><div>Joe Pun Ho Lui</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><br></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div>
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