
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Michael and all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you for all the engagement in this thread—I truly appreciate it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">IMO, whether the summarizing construction should include an array of strategies is essentially a question of whether the counting items (numeral, number and dual pronouns) are coordinators.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A list of nominals is essentially a coordinating construction, e.g., ’Stephen Joe Virginia’. If the counting items are coordinators, as suggested by Haspelmath (2007), then a summarizing construction should only include examples in which the coordinands and counting item form an NP constituent (e.g., [<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Stephen Joe Virginia three</span>]np) and exclude examples that do not (e.g., [<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Stephen Joe Virginia</span>]np [go-three]vp). But I am a bit skeptical about them being coordinators, consider the following examples:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(1) <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Stephen Joe <i class="">and</i> Virginia </span></div><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">(2) <i class="">three</i> people</span></div><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class="">(1) and (2) refer to the same group of people. (1) with a coordinator focuses on the <i class="">differences</i> of referents whereas (2) with a numeral focus on the <i class="">similarity</i> of referents, i.e., being [+human]. Hence, there is seemingly a functional difference between a general coordinator and a numeral. Ofc, one could claim that numerals in natural languages can actually focus on differences as well (e.g., </font><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Stephen Joe Virginia three</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">), so it is a matter of perspectives.</span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class="">If the counting items <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">are</span> not coordinators, then we can include a large array of strategies, notably those that are not part of the list NP, e.g., dual indexing and appositive construction with NUM-CL. </font></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class="">(Yes, I have no idea if there is an umbrella term for numeral and number— perhaps a <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">“</span>summarizer” (Croft, 2022) )would be the closest candidate).</font></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class="">Warmest,</font></div><div class=""><font color="#000000" class="">Joe Pun Ho Lui</font></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Michael Daniel <<a href="mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com" class="">misha.daniel@gmail.com</a>> 於 2023年9月11日 下午9:19 寫道：</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div class="">Dear Pun Ho Lui, dear colleagues.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I wanted to come back to what David wrote in one of the first answers. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In this thread, there were mentions of constructions that are usually considered separately - <i class="">summarizing</i> constructions (as the example from <span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">Mongsen Ao, probably also Japhug and Adamawa) and <i class="">inclusory</i> constructions (as the explicative Mwotlap construction), to which Alexandre François added what looks to me as an unmistakably <i class="">associative plural</i> construction (his recognitional construction in Mwotlap). I have no knowledge about summarizing constructions, but both inclusory constructions and associative plurals are of course very common cross-linguistically. To the reference to Linchtenber on inclusory constructions in Austronesian, I would add at least Ruth Singer's 2001 survey of them in Australia or discussions of <i class="">dedicated </i>inclusory pronouns in Mande languages - but of course many other languages also have these. </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">***</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">Now, on the one hand, we see, e.g. from Alexandre's examples, that the three types of constructions can be morphosyntactically similar, at least to some extent. Language-internally, the boundaries between them may be fuzzy, and certainly not all typologists would agree to draw them in the same way (if they would want to draw them, in the first place). So - probably unlike David? - I think that it may make sense to survey them together, as has in fact been going on in this thread, to my view. On the other hand, they may also be completely unrelated, or only some of them may be present in an individual language. </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">In other words - now very much following David (I think) - I believe that, while being prepared to see the three constructions to be formally related in some or many languages, or even considering them as one empirical domain of investigation, one would want to remain very sensitive to the potential differences between these constructions, based on signature properties proposed in earlier of each of these constructions separately. </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">To give just one example, as David pointed out, a very special property of inclusory construction, something that is often considered to be definitional for them, is that there is an unexpected referential property of "strict inclusion" - the reference of the inclusory element includes, <i class="">and</i> is wider, than the reference of the "added" phrase ("we with <a href="http://you.sg/" class="">you.sg</a>" meaning '<a href="http://you.sg/" class="">you.sg</a> and I'). Another special property, not mentioned by David (probably because it is too obvious), is that in the vast majority of cases, the inclusory element is either a plural pronoun or plural index on the verb. </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">Associative plurals have their own signature properties (some of which are briefly referred to in Alexandre François' detailed reply), and probably summarizing constructions also have some of their own, which I am unaware of because of my limited knowledge of them. </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">Fuzzy as the boundaries may be in individual languages, to me, these properties are not just part of arbitrary "etic" categories but reflect a certain internal logic of the functional domain in question. If one does not try to keep an eye on these properties, one runs a risk of confusion. </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">As an example of what seems to me to be a confusion, your own initial examples would not, to me, constitute exemplary cases of summarizing constructions - none of them contains a lexical numeral; moreover, arguably, they all can be interpreted as extension of inclusory constructions. I am aware of the fact that they contradict one or both of the properties that I considered signature for inclusory pronouns; but I think many would agree they are not prototypical summarizing constructions, either. As a result, some people, based on your examples, provided examples of inclusory constructions; while David, based on your definition, discarded contributions as not directly related to your query.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">(Personally, I think this is a result of your equating number marking with numerals, and I do not know whether the studies you refer to for "summarizing" numerals explicitly license this. </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">Again, I do agree that it might be a meaningful enterprise to consider all ways of expressing cardinal numerosity ('two' and dual, 'three' and trial) in your study, but one should be prepared to face a very heterogeneous range of morphosyntactic constructions.) </span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif" class="">Michael            </span></div></div></div><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">вс, 10 сент. 2023 г. в 22:14, Lora Litvinova <<a href="mailto:loravlitvinova@gmail.com" class="">loravlitvinova@gmail.com</a>>:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-family:"Doulos SIL""><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">Dear all,<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">Kugama, an Adamawa

language of Nigeria (ISO 639-3: kow; Glottocode: kuga1239), has noun phrases

that also summarize the number of elements involved in nominal coordination, see

examples below. Structurally, these phrases are possessive constructions with a

numeral as a head and a possessive pronominal as a modifier. More information

about these constructions can be found in my PhD dissertation (Litvinova 2023)

that will be available online after the defense in December 2023.<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">(1)<span class="">   </span>Ɔ̀zūrúwā<sup class=""> <span class="">  </span></sup>ɗéè <span class="">     </span>Lúkpɛ̂wà

<span class="">   </span>à <span class="">       </span>Bɛ̀nā<span class="">   </span><span class="">  </span>tì

<span class="">         </span>sɛ́ɛ́=kī</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">       Ozuruwa<span class="">  </span>CONJ<span class="">  </span>Luikpewa<span class="">   </span>COM<span class="">   </span>Bena<span class="">    </span><span class="">P</span>ROG<span class="">   </span>fight=NMLZ<span class=""> </span><span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">       ní<sup class="">L</sup>sá̰ā̰=<sup class="">L</sup>=rī=<sup class="">L</sup>=rē<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">       three=GEN=POSS=GEN=3PL.HUM.POSS.ALIEN<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">      ‘Ozuruwa, Luikpewa and Bena are fighting. All three of them.’<span class=""></span></span></font></p><div style="text-align: left; margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;" class=""><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span></span></font><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">(2)<span class="">  </span>ā <span class="">      </span>kā=tí <span class="">        </span>dìŋ=<sup class="">L <span class="">          </span></sup>kísā <span class="">         </span>ɗéè

<span class="">      </span>dìŋ<span class=""></span>=<sup class="">L <span class="">          </span></sup>zɛ᷇m<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">      1SG<span class="">  </span>see=PFV <span class="">  </span>tree=GEN baobab     CONJ <span class="">   </span>tree=GEN  tamarind<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">      à <span class="">       </span>dìŋ=<sup class="">L

<span class="">            </span></sup>nɔ̄rī <span class="">       </span>à <span class="">          </span>dìŋ=<sup class="">L <span class="">           </span></sup>gbɛ̀lɛ́<sup class="">L <span class="">                  </span></sup>tì

<span class="">         </span>gɛ̀pí=ɛ̄<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">      COM <span class="">  </span>tree=GEN  shea <span class="">     </span>COM

<span class="">     </span>tree=GEN  gbele_tree <span class="">       </span>PROG  <span class=""></span>grow=NMLZ</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">      ɓáā=<sup class="">L <span class="">       </span></sup>háákī<span class="">      </span></span><span lang="IS" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">ní<sup class="">L</sup>hɛ̰̄=</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class=""><sup class=""><span class="">L<span class=""></span></span></sup><span lang="IS" class="">=rɛ̂</span><sup class=""><span class=""><span class=""></span></span></sup></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">      in=GEN <span class="">  </span>farm <span class="">       </span>four=GEN=</span><span lang="FR" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">3PL.NHUM.POSS.ALIEN<span class=""></span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">     ‘I saw a baobab tree, a tamarind tree, a shea tree and a <i class="">gbele</i> tree (the species of this tree is

unknown) growing in the farm. All four of them.’</span><span lang="FR" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""></span></span></font></p><div style="text-align: left; margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;" class=""><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span></span></font><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">Reference: Litvinova, Lora. 2023. A

grammatical analysis and documentation of Kugama (Wam), an Adamawa language of

Nigeria. Paris: INALCO PhD thesis<span class=""></span></span></font></p><div style="text-align: left; margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt;" class=""><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class=""> </span></font><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">Best wishes,</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left;margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" class="">Lora</span></font><span class=""></span></p>


</div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 8:50 AM Pun Ho Lui <<a href="mailto:luiph001@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">luiph001@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="">Dear All,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Haspelmath (2007) and Croft (2022) discussed a coordinating construction in which a numeral “summarizes” the number of referents in a list. There are different strategies in which the numeral behaves this way, e.g., a free numeral (1); a dual affix on a coordinand (2); a dual pronoun in apposition with the list+verb with dual marker (3). These numeral may be mono-syndetic or bi-syndatic.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-size:11pt;font-weight:700" class="">(1)</span><span style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-size:11pt" class=""> Zaozou</span></div><div class=""><div title="Page 155" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700" class="">ŋu55</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700" class="">-mu55 na53 </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700" class="">phiɛ</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;font-weight:700" class="">33

</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT" class="">1-PL[EXCL] two father_and_child </span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT" class="">“we two (exclusive), my daughter and I.”  (Li, 2020)</span></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(2) Kham </div><div class="">

                
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                                <div class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Times" class="">syar sono:h pusum-ni </span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Times" class="">louse and flea-</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Times" class="">DL

</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Times" class="">‘the louse and the flea’ (Watters, 2004)</span></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">

                
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                                <div class=""><p class=""><span style="" class="">(3) </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class=""> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;font-style:italic" class="">Mapudungu<br class=""></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">(iñché) eymi    inchiu   i-y-u

</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class=""> I          you:</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">SG </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">we:</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">DU </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">eat-</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">IND</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">-1</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">NONSG</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">-</span><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">DU</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-family:ArialMT" class=""><font size="1" class="">  </font></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:ArialMT" class="">‘You and I ate.’ </span></p><div class=""><font face="Arial" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial" class="">Languages with this construction I know are Zaozou, Kham, <span style="font-style: italic;" class="">Mapudungu, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Alto Perené<b class="">, </b></span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Bangla<b class="">, </b>Cantonese<b class="">, </b>Mandarin<b class="">, </b></span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Papuan

Malay<b class="">, </b></span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Yakut<b class="">, </b></span>


</font><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Inari

Saami, <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Mongolian, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Classical

Tibetan, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Huallaga

Quechua, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Wardaman, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Khanty, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Vedic

Sanskrit, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Mparntwe Arrernte, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Daga, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Mapudungu, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Enets, </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Kham and </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Hualapai</span></font></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am wondering if there are other languages sharing similar constructions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Warmest,</div><div class="">Joe Pun Ho Lui</div><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><br class=""></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br class=""></p></div>


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