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<p>I wouldn't use "obviation", because outside of North American
linguistics, this has come to be used in the sense of "disjoint
reference from the subject" (e.g. Szabolcsi, Anna, 2021. Obviation
in Hungarian: What is its scope, and is it due to competition? <i>Glossa:
A Journal of General Linguistics</i> 6(1): 57. doi: <a
href="https://doi.org/10.5334/gjgl.1421"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://doi.org/10.5334/gjgl.1421</a>)</p>
<p>In my 2021 paper on role-reference associations
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/004047">https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/004047</a>), I referred to the kinds of
phenomena that Jürgen talks about as "scenario splits" of argument
coding, because they depend on the *scenario* (the
referential-prominence value of two arguments).</p>
<p>I wouldn't use the term "alignment" for such phenomena, because
this is generally reserved for coexpression patterns (accusative
alignment is coexpression of S and A, ergative alignment is
coexpression of S and P, etc).</p>
<p>But this discussion is useful because it illustrates how
difficult we sometimes find it to talk about interesting phenomena
with terms that we all understand right away.<br>
</p>
<p>Martin<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18.09.23 20:26, Juergen Bohnemeyer
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Fair enough,
Christian! Let me try to restate my comment a little more
sensibly:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Both
active/passive voice alternations and the kind of phenomena
I’m interested in (including inverse voice marking) are
governed by constraints on topicality and animacy, and thus
more broadly by ‘reference-conditioned alignment
constraints’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">But I was
looking specifically for a way to designate only those
constraints that occur in obviative alignment systems.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">And those
constraints are of a subtly different nature from those that
govern active/passive alternations. In active/passive
alternations (though surely not in every language-specific
construction that has been called by that label), what
matters is whether the actor or the undergoer is topical and
where each lands on an animacy scale.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In contrast,
in obviative alignment systems, what matters is whether the
actor *<b>outranks</b>* the undergoer in animacy and
topicality (including definiteness) or vice versa.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">And, again,
I’m looking for a way to specifically designate grammatical
systems that have constraints of this specific second kind.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Does that
make sense? – Best – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen
Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a
href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"
title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a
href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"
title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office
hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom
(Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light
Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Christian
Lehmann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de"><christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 18, 2023 at 19:32<br>
<b>To: </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><jb77@buffalo.edu></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query:
Obviative constraints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I'm
afraid I don't understand your qualms. An alternation
is not a constraint, and voices and diatheses are no
alignment constraints.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,
Christian! But wouldn’t those terms again also extend
to voice alternations, including European-style
active/passive alternations? I’m not looking for a
cover term, mind you, but rather specifically for a
term that narrowly denotes those constraints that
specifically concern the
<i>relative</i> animacy and topicality (etc.) of core
arguments in transitive (and ditransitive) clauses. –
Best – Juergen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen
Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY
14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a
href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"
title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a
href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"
title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office
hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom
(Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The
Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="DE"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="DE"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on behalf of
Christian Lehmann <a
href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 18, 2023 at
18:12<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology
query: Obviative constraints</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Since
animacy (better: empathy
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Apple
Color Emoji"">🙂</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">) and topicality are both
related to reference, the term you are looking for
could be something like 'reference-conditioned
alignment constraint'. It would cover not only
empathy and topicality, but also other referential
properties like specificity, which play a role in
alignment, too.<br>
Best, Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">--
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Prof. em. Dr.
Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Prof. em. Dr. Christian
Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Tel.:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">+49/361/2113417<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">E-Post:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Web:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/">https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/</a></pre>
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