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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Fair enough, Christian! Let me try to restate my comment a little more sensibly:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Both active/passive voice alternations and the kind of phenomena I’m interested in (including inverse voice marking) are governed by constraints on topicality and animacy, and thus more broadly by ‘reference-conditioned
alignment constraints’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">But I was looking specifically for a way to designate only those constraints that occur in obviative alignment systems.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">And those constraints are of a subtly different nature from those that govern active/passive alternations. In active/passive alternations (though surely not in every language-specific construction that has
been called by that label), what matters is whether the actor or the undergoer is topical and where each lands on an animacy scale.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In contrast, in obviative alignment systems, what matters is whether the actor *<b>outranks</b>* the undergoer in animacy and topicality (including definiteness) or vice versa.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">And, again, I’m looking for a way to specifically designate grammatical systems that have constraints of this specific second kind.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Does that make sense? – Best – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 18, 2023 at 19:32<br>
<b>To: </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77@buffalo.edu>, LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I'm afraid I don't understand your qualms. An alternation is not a constraint, and voices and diatheses are no alignment constraints.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks, Christian! But wouldn’t those terms again also extend to voice alternations, including European-style active/passive alternations? I’m not looking for a cover term, mind you, but rather specifically
for a term that narrowly denotes those constraints that specifically concern the
<i>relative</i> animacy and topicality (etc.) of core arguments in transitive (and ditransitive) clauses. – Best – Juergen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on behalf of Christian Lehmann <a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de">
<christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 18, 2023 at 18:12<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Since animacy (better: empathy
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">🙂</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">) and topicality are both related to reference, the term you are looking for could be something like 'reference-conditioned alignment constraint'. It
would cover not only empathy and topicality, but also other referential properties like specificity, which play a role in alignment, too.<br>
Best, Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Tel.:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">+49/361/2113417</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">E-Post:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Web:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Tel.:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">+49/361/2113417<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">E-Post:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Web:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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