<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Peter,</div><div><br></div><div>You may want to check out the first chapter, "Language isolates and their history", by Lyle Campbell in the book (2017) <i>Language isolates</i> edited by himself (<a href="https://www.routledge.com/Language-Isolates/Campbell/p/book/9780367870959">https://www.routledge.com/Language-Isolates/Campbell/p/book/9780367870959</a>), where the author concludes that "[t]here is nothing unusual about isolates".</div><div><br></div><div>In any case, if I understand correctly, the lack of unusual traits mostly refers to the diachrony of isolates, that is to say, how they change over time, how they diversify into dialects and eventually become small language families, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Iker<br></div><div><br></div><div>
--<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Peter Arkadiev <<a href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" target="_blank">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a>><br>
Date: Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:54<br>
To: Linguistic Typology <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological rarities<br>
Dear typologists,<br>
<br>
I vaguely recall having read or heard that it has been claimed that
small language families and language isolates have a greater probability
of possessing typologically unusual and rare features, however, I
cannot locate any references discussing this issue (the two volumes of
Rara et Rarissima published in 2010 do not, as far as I can tell). I
would be grateful for any references that either espouse such a claim or
explicitly disconfirm it.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance!<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
--<br>
Peter Arkadiev, PhD Habil.<br>
<a href="https://peterarkadiev.github.io/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://peterarkadiev.github.io/</a>
</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 at 13:02, <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Lingtyp mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. small language families and typological rarities (Peter Arkadiev)<br>
2. Re: small language families and typological rarities<br>
(Juergen Bohnemeyer)<br>
3. Re: small language families and typological rarities (Ian Joo)<br>
4. Re: small language families and typological rarities<br>
(Peter Arkadiev)<br>
5. Re: small language families and typological rarities<br>
(Christian Lehmann)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 13:54:46 +0300<br>
From: Peter Arkadiev <<a href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" target="_blank">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a>><br>
To: Linguistic Typology <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological rarities<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:00:45 +0000<br>
From: Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
To: Peter Arkadiev <<a href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" target="_blank">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a>>, Linguistic Typology<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological<br>
rarities<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:SJ0PR15MB46960C3495CC3BD64215E0ECDDB4A@SJ0PR15MB4696.namprd15.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">SJ0PR15MB46960C3495CC3BD64215E0ECDDB4A@SJ0PR15MB4696.namprd15.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Dear Peter ? I think this is at least indirectly addressed in the Skirg?rd et al. (2023) release article of Grambank:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adg6175" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adg6175</a><br>
<br>
One of the things explored in there is the correlation between endangerment and typological rarity/uniqueness.<br>
<br>
Best ? Juergen<br>
<br>
<br>
Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo<br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260<br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127<br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
Web: <a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a><br>
<br>
Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)<br>
<br>
There?s A Crack In Everything - That?s How The Light Gets In<br>
(Leonard Cohen)<br>
--<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Peter Arkadiev <<a href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" target="_blank">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a>><br>
Date: Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:54<br>
To: Linguistic Typology <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological rarities<br>
Dear typologists,<br>
<br>
I vaguely recall having read or heard that it has been claimed that small language families and language isolates have a greater probability of possessing typologically unusual and rare features, however, I cannot locate any references discussing this issue (the two volumes of Rara et Rarissima published in 2010 do not, as far as I can tell). I would be grateful for any references that either espouse such a claim or explicitly disconfirm it.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance!<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
--<br>
Peter Arkadiev, PhD Habil.<br>
<a href="https://peterarkadiev.github.io/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://peterarkadiev.github.io/</a><br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 20:07:02 +0900<br>
From: Ian Joo <<a href="mailto:ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp" target="_blank">ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp</a>><br>
To: "<<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological<br>
rarities<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E7E05455-F9BA-4957-B0C5-E8D1CC73DCEA@nucba.ac.jp" target="_blank">E7E05455-F9BA-4957-B0C5-E8D1CC73DCEA@nucba.ac.jp</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dear Peter,<br>
<br>
I?m not aware of the source you have in mind, but maybe such statement can be simply logically inferred?<br>
A feature being ?typologically rare? means fewer lects have it.<br>
A family being smaller or isolate means it has fewer lects (minimally one).<br>
Also, features are commonly shared by the lects of the same family, by the virtue of common heritage.<br>
So smaller family = smaller sibling lects to share inherited features with = more likely to have ?rare? features.<br>
For example, if all Indo-European lects suddenly disappeared except for English, English would be one of the very few lects with typically Indo-European traits (along with some other lects that happen to share them due to contact or coincidence).<br>
<br>
>From Japan,<br>
Ian<br>
<br>
- - - - -<br>
JOO, IAN ???<br>
Lecturer ??<br>
Faculty of International Studies ????<br>
Nagoya University of Commerce and Business ???????<br>
Nisshin, Aichi, Japan ??????<br>
<a href="https://ianjoo.github.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ianjoo.github.io</a><br>
- - - - -<br>
<br>
> 20.11.2023 19:55, Peter Arkadiev <<a href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" target="_blank">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a>> ??:<br>
> <br>
> ?<br>
> Dear typologists,<br>
> <br>
> I vaguely recall having read or heard that it has been claimed that small language families and language isolates have a greater probability of possessing typologically unusual and rare features, however, I cannot locate any references discussing this issue (the two volumes of Rara et Rarissima published in 2010 do not, as far as I can tell). I would be grateful for any references that either espouse such a claim or explicitly disconfirm it.<br>
> <br>
> Thanks in advance!<br>
> <br>
> Peter<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Peter Arkadiev, PhD Habil.<br>
> <a href="https://peterarkadiev.github.io/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://peterarkadiev.github.io/</a><br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 14:20:43 +0300<br>
From: Peter Arkadiev <<a href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" target="_blank">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a>><br>
To: Ian Joo <<a href="mailto:ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp" target="_blank">ian_joo@nucba.ac.jp</a>>, "\""<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological<br>
rarities<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:152471700479100@mail.yandex.ru" target="_blank">152471700479100@mail.yandex.ru</a>><br>
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<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:49:55 +0000<br>
From: Christian Lehmann <<a href="mailto:christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank">christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] small language families and typological<br>
rarities<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7fa3a12f-584a-4a1d-9fc6-fc15aca43f5a@uni-erfurt.de" target="_blank">7fa3a12f-584a-4a1d-9fc6-fc15aca43f5a@uni-erfurt.de</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
It is, at any rate, claimed here:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.spektrum.de/news/isolierte-sprachen-die-geheimnisse-der-ueberlebenden/2184438?utm_source=pocket-newtab-de-de" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.spektrum.de/news/isolierte-sprachen-die-geheimnisse-der-ueberlebenden/2184438?utm_source=pocket-newtab-de-de</a><br>
<br>
(for what it may be worth ...).<br>
<br>
Cheers, Christian<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
Deutschland<br>
<br>
Tel.: +49/361/2113417<br>
E-Post: <a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a><br>
Web: <a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a><br>
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</blockquote></div></div>