<div dir="ltr">In many Austronesian languages of Eastern Indonesia the verb 'take', which reconstructs as *ala/*alap/*alaq, the innovative 3SG prefix *na- has fossilised on, resulting in *nala. In Palu'e, from Flores, there is no productive verb agreement, but the verb 'take' is consistently <i>nala</i>.<div></div><div>In Skou (north-central New Guinea) the verb <i>hung</i> 'drink' shows the 3SG prefix (*k-hung > <i>kung</i>) as the base for the 1SG inflection as well, using <i>kung</i>, rather than expected *<i>hung</i>. There are complications with the verbs 'eat' and 'refuse', as well, possibly involving the transfer of inflection from another cell to the 1SG. These Skou forms don't show inflectional prefixing being reanalysed as part of the verb root, but are possibly a stepping stone towards that happening.</div><div><br></div><div>-Mark</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 at 02:02, Eitan Grossman <<a href="mailto:eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il">eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>Isn't Watkin's Law relevant here? <font face="arial, sans-serif">--- "third person </font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">markers are reanalyzed as part of the verbal stem, giving thus rise to zero </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">marking in the third person</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">” </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">(Bickel et al. 2015), a process that Watkins posited </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">to account for the reanalysis of the 3</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">SG </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">ending -</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">t </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">as part of the verbal stem in the </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">course of development from Proto-Iranian to Persian (Watkins 1962: 94). Eugen Hill has also written about this recently and substantially.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Eitan</span><br></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Bickel, Balthasar, Alena Witzlack-Makarevich, Taras Zakharko & Giorgio Iemmolo. 2015.</font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Exploring diachronic universals of agreement: Alignment patterns and zero marking across</font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">person categories. In Jürg Fleischer, Elisabeth Rieken & Paul Widmer (eds.), <span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">Agreement</span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">from a diachronic perspective</span>, 29<span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">–</span>52. Berlin: De Gruyter Mouton.</font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">Watkins, Calvert. 1962. </span>Indo-European origins of the Celtic verb<span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">, Vol. 1: </span>The sigmatic aorist<span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">.</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Dublin: Institute for Advanced Studies.</font></p></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Eitan Grossman<div>Associate Professor, Department of Linguistics<br></div><div>Department of Linguistics<br></div><div>Hebrew University of Jerusalem</div><div>Tel: +972 2 588 3809</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 4:01 PM Nigel Vincent <<a href="mailto:nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk" target="_blank">nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">A case that would seem to fit the bill is the distinction between
<i>aver(e) </i>'have as auxiliary' and <i>gaver(e) </i>'have, possess' in some northern Italian dialects, where the initial
<i>g </i>of the main verb is a fossilized locative clitic. Compare colloquial northern Italian where the same element still behaves as a clitic - hence
<i>ce l'ho </i>'I have it' and <i>c'ho una macchina </i>'I have a car'. There's an excellent study of this by Sandra Paoli (in Italian) -<a href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/rro.19004.pao" id="m_9009461261224955309m_-7061148944537333062LPlnk510867" target="_blank">https://benjamins.com/catalog/rro.19004.pao</a></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Nigel</span></div>
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<br>
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<div id="m_9009461261224955309m_-7061148944537333062Signature">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">The University of Manchester</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
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<span style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><a href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html" target="_blank">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a></span></div>
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<div id="m_9009461261224955309m_-7061148944537333062divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Uni KN <<a href="mailto:frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de" target="_blank">frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 30 November 2023 2:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Siva Kalyan <<a href="mailto:sivakalyan.princeton@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">sivakalyan.princeton@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Indexes fossilizing</font>
<div> </div>
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<div style="line-break:after-white-space">Possibly German verb schwan-en 'to have a sense of foreboding’ is like Nahuatl:
<div>e.g., mir schwant etwas/Unheil ‘to me (DAT) looms something/a disaster (NOM)’
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It’s not related to Schwan ’swan’, but arguably to verb wahn-en/wähn-en 'to imagine (wrongly)’:</div>
<div>e.g., ich wähnte ihn glücklich/zuhause 'I (wrongly) imagined him happy/at home').
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The initial s- of schwanen is (well, could be) the 3rd person singular neuter personal pronoun es fossilised, and phonologically adapted to a consonantal onset, of the original verb, frequently used “impersonally” with a non-specific, vague indication
of the stimulus of the sensation, as in:</div>
<div>(e)s wānet mir ... 'it seems to me (as if)’.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Or so the story goes, and it seems to me a more plausible story than one relating schwanen to myths about prophetic swans or to Humanist joking about having forebodings and smelling, with Latin olēre ’smell’ sound-related to olor ’swan’. Nonetheless,
Otto Behaghel (Zur Etymologie von SCHWANEN, 1913) didn't like it either, because he doubted that wähnen ever was an "impersonal" verb, with the stimulus rather than the experiencer as subject.</div>
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<div>Let’s stick with Nahuatl, then, to be on the safe side. It’s a hard life, the typologist’s who craves diachronic wisdom. Mir schwant Unheil.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Frans </div>
<div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 30. Nov 2023, at 13:11, Siva Kalyan <<a href="mailto:sivakalyan.princeton@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">sivakalyan.princeton@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="line-break:after-white-space">If this phenomenon does exist, I suspect the most likely source construction would be “impersonal” argument indexes, such as Classical Nāhuatl
<i>tla-</i> (e.g. <i>ihtoa</i> ‘say’ > <i>tlahtoa</i> ‘speak’); see <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nahuatl.wired-humanities.org/content/tla__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!DKiECfDZZXe0JdsKh-v3yowq9bf-X9N1F6exXxdf5ixKYwtCSCwxtDYX9KDW-0oMplGBJ64y47nNNhm4lIDfP5ZNKf3MG0LykkuGoSg$" target="_blank">https://nahuatl.wired-humanities.org/content/tla
[nahuatl.wired-humanities.org]</a> for examples and references.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Siva<br id="m_9009461261224955309m_-7061148944537333062x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 30 Nov 2023, at 9:29 pm, Juergen Bohnemeyer <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif"">Dear all – I’m passing along the following query from one of my advisees, Jose Antonio Jodar Sánchez:</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif"">“I have been looking for references which talk about pronominal affixes on verbs which have become fossilized and are now part of the
verb root. I checked Anna Siewierska’s book on person but I could not find anything. Do you know of any?”</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif"">Presumably, what Jose Antonio’s is looking for is above all citable treatments. However, if the phenomenon hasn’t been dealt with exhaustively
(which it may not), I’m sure examples will be helpful as well.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif"">Thanks! – Juergen</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span></div>
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<div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
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