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<p>Hello, </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I have to say that I also felt uncomfortable with your tone Sasha, and I believe it is probably better to engage in collegial discussion than public condemnation. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>This said, having worked with smaller communities in Australia, I have also experienced, occasionally, that the use made of published data was not fair to a speakers' community. These questions are considerably more complicated where linguists work with speakers
of languages who are struggling with colonial oppression.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt;">There are lots of discussions on how to manage consent for the use of data across time. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt;">They are all very complicated and plagued with misunderstandings.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Whatever answers we wish to give in the end, I don't think these difficult questions can be brushed off simply by claiming the use of any accessible data for the sake of science as soon as it has entered the "scientific arena",
so to speak. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I suppose this was implied in your suggestions Kate (which I very much agree with), but I thought is may be good to make it even more explicit. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Cheers and kind regards to all, </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Maïa</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Maïa Ponsonnet</span></p>
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Du Langage</span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de Kate Lindsey <klindsey@bu.edu><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 6 décembre 2023 15:52<br>
<b>À :</b> Sebastian Nordhoff<br>
<b>Cc :</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Evidentiality, gatekeeping, arguments to authority</font>
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<div dir="auto">Dear all,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I have also been in the position where a colleague has re-interpreted an analysis of mine based on only the subset of data that I managed to publish and not the overwhelming data that a linguistic community or indeed an invested data collector
may hold. In fact, I imagine that's true for many of us on this list who have done any amount of fieldwork. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As humbling as it is to witness someone engaging in our work in this less than optimal way, the answer is clearly not to demean them publicly and shoo them out of the room. If we want others to engage with our language data better, there are
several more productive things we can do:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">1. Make larger sets of data open access both in raw and annotated formats. </div>
<div dir="auto">2. Publish guides so that others know how to interpret our data collections.</div>
<div dir="auto">3. Provide consultations with researchers seeking to understand our data collections.</div>
<div dir="auto">4. Establish and adhere to data management/annotation standards to the extent possible so that data can be compared.</div>
<div dir="auto">5. Connect our publications to curated datasets so that readers can see more data than is allowed in word-limited abstracts, papers, and books.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is a lot of work, and is often skipped due to the fact that (1) our field has not historically acknowledged the importance of this kind of data shepherding, (2) this work is best carried out by a team and not just one person, which requires
funding, and (3) certain linguists are unwilling to make their raw data accessible.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Clearly we need systemic changes to support training, funding, and promotion for work in these areas (and many are working towards these goals already!), but the kind of gatekeeping displayed here goes against these efforts by shutting down
communication where it is needed most. Those who willingly misinterpret or hoard data/analyses will be recognized, and may even make it easy for us by self-identifying in public spaces. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Kate</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24 AM Sebastian Nordhoff <<a href="mailto:sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de">sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
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Dear all,<br>
I would like to second Jocelyn's remarks.<br>
Prof. Aikhenvalds position is basically that analyses based on 30 years <br>
of fieldwork cannot be challenged or amended by researchers who do not <br>
have that amount of experience.<br>
Sorry, this is gatekeeping and antithetic to science. If Marius Zemp's <br>
analyses are wrong or mistaken, these will be filtered out by the <br>
scientific method, but not by ad hominem or by arguments to authority. <br>
How feeble is it to put scare quotes around names, and to put question <br>
marks after the name of a colleague. My respect for you, Prof. <br>
Aikhenvald, has plummeted.<br>
Best wishes<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/6/23 11:00, Jocelyn Aznar wrote:<br>
> Dear everyone,<br>
> <br>
> I hope this message finds you well. I would like to address Prof. <br>
> Aikhenvald's recent contribution to our discussion list. It's the first <br>
> time I've encountered such a message on the list, and I believe it's <br>
> important to respond in order to maintain the collegial spirit of our <br>
> exchanges.<br>
> <br>
> Her message, which contained many ad personam attacks, is rude and <br>
> unfair. Such behavior goes against the collaborative atmosphere we have <br>
> on this list. Furthermore, I fully align with Marius Zemp's observation <br>
> that her message challenges a "basic principle of social science that <br>
> any data published are there for linguists to discuss and reanalyze."<br>
> <br>
> In the interest of constructive dialogue, if Prof. Aikhenvald disagrees <br>
> with Marius Zemp's analysis, a more productive response would involve <br>
> engaging in a counter linguistic discussion. This approach aligns with <br>
> the principles of open academic discourse and encourages a more positive <br>
> and productive exchange of ideas.<br>
> <br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Jocelyn Aznar<br>
> from Bern<br>
> <br>
> Le 04/12/2023 à 11:20, Alexandra Aikhenvald a écrit :<br>
>> Dear colleagues and friends<br>
>><br>
>> I would like to share with you two recent papers on mine, dealing with <br>
>> evidentiality, including the expression of shared information source <br>
>> across languages, and a new approach to the multifaceted semantics of <br>
>> evidentials. In the most recent paper, ‘Speaking about knowledge’, you <br>
>> will see a discussion of the interaction between evidentiality, <br>
>> egophoricity, and mirativity which may lead to a new take on semantic <br>
>> typology of evidentials (a continuation of what has been done within <br>
>> the /Oxford Handbook of evidentiality, /now coming out in paperback <br>
>> with some corrections, later this year).<br>
>><br>
>> A note is in order.<br>
>><br>
>> All the information on Tariana - an endangered and yet vital Arawak <br>
>> language of North-west Amazonia, Brazil - is based on immersion <br>
>> fieldwork with the speakers of Tariana, over the past 30 years or so. <br>
>> The analysis in all my work (including the 2003 grammar, the Oxford <br>
>> Handbook, and umpteen other papers) is based on fieldwork, careful <br>
>> analysos and also on speakers’ intuitions, comments, and our discussions.<br>
>><br>
>> An unfortunate incident has been recently brought to my attention. <br>
>> Someone by the name of 'Zemp' (currently at the University of Bern?), <br>
>> has been making quasi-typological pronouncements, spuriously and <br>
>> gratuitously misinterpreting the Tariana markers of visual <br>
>> evidentiality as something else. Naturally, his work does not make <br>
>> sense (see attached, for instance). Zemp does not know the first thing <br>
>> about the language - which is obvious from his 'typologies'.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> We, grammar analysts, are no strangers to spurious re-interpretations <br>
>> by those who have little understanding of the languages they dare <br>
>> ‘reinterpret’ and even less of linguistic typology. However, such <br>
>> misinterpretations are worrying and upsetting for all, including the <br>
>> speakers themselves. If Zemp has any vestiges of honesty, he will make <br>
>> a public apology to the Tariana Nation.<br>
>><br>
>> Best wishes<br>
>><br>
>> Sacha<br>
>><br>
>> Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald, PhD, DLitt, FAHA, FQAAS, MAE<br>
>><br>
>> Professorial Research Fellow and Australian Laureate Fellow<br>
>><br>
>> Jawun Centre (formerly Centre for Indigenous Health Equity Research), <br>
>> Central Queensland University<br>
>><br>
>> Cairns, Queensland, Australia<br>
>><br>
>> Foundation Director of the Language and Culture Research Centre (JCU)<br>
>><br>
>> Consultant, OED (South American languages)<br>
>><br>
>> phone 61-400305315<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.aikhenvaldlinguistics.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://www.aikhenvaldlinguistics.com/</a> <br>
>> <<a href="http://www.aikhenvaldlinguistics.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.aikhenvaldlinguistics.com/</a>>;<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://staff-profiles.cqu.edu.au/home/view/25682" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://staff-profiles.cqu.edu.au/home/view/25682</a> <br>
>> <<a href="https://mcas-proxyweb.mcas.ms/certificate-checker?login=false&originalUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fstaff-profiles.cqu.edu.au.mcas.ms%2Fhome%2Fview%2F25682%3FMcasTsid%3D20893" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mcas-proxyweb.mcas.ms/certificate-checker?login=false&originalUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fstaff-profiles.cqu.edu.au.mcas.ms%2Fhome%2Fview%2F25682%3FMcasTsid%3D20893</a>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/view/all/ADD43F35E4ED54959A3F28C152248725.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/view/all/ADD43F35E4ED54959A3F28C152248725.html</a> <<a href="https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/view/all/ADD43F35E4ED54959A3F28C152248725.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/view/all/ADD43F35E4ED54959A3F28C152248725.html</a>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Aikhenvald_Alexandra" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Aikhenvald_Alexandra</a> <br>
>> <<a href="https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Aikhenvald_Alexandra" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Aikhenvald_Alexandra</a>>alternative
<br>
>> e-mail: <a href="mailto:a.aikhenvald@cqu.edu.au" target="_blank">a.aikhenvald@cqu.edu.au</a>,
<a href="mailto:nyamamayratakw@gmail.com" target="_blank">nyamamayratakw@gmail.com</a>,
<br>
>> <a href="mailto:goldagorb@yahoo.com" target="_blank">goldagorb@yahoo.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> *Serial Verbs* *The Oxford Handbook of Evidentiality*<br>
>><br>
>> By *Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald Edited By* *Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald*<br>
>><br>
>> Now available from Oxford University Press <br>
>> <<a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/serial-verbs-9780198791263?cc=au&lang=en&" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://global.oup.com/academic/product/serial-verbs-9780198791263?cc=au&lang=en&</a>>Now available from Oxford University Press
<<a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-evidentiality-9780198759515?cc=au&lang=en&" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-evidentiality-9780198759515?cc=au&lang=en&</a>><br>
>><br>
>> Sig1 <br>
>> <<a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/serial-verbs-9780198791263?cc=au&lang=en&" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://global.oup.com/academic/product/serial-verbs-9780198791263?cc=au&lang=en&</a>>Sig2 <<a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-evidentiality-9780198759515?cc=au&lang=en&" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-evidentiality-9780198759515?cc=au&lang=en&</a>><br>
>><br>
>> My new book is <a href="https://profilebooks.com/work/i-saw-the-dog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://profilebooks.com/work/i-saw-the-dog</a> <br>
>> <<a href="https://profilebooks.com/work/i-saw-the-dog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://profilebooks.com/work/i-saw-the-dog/</a>>.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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