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<p>Dear John,</p>
<p>what about partitive for the first one and elative for the
second? Some languages (not only Finnic) develop partitive cases
that are not or almost not used in the original spatial meaning.</p>
<p>See:</p>
<p>Seržant, I. 2021. Typology of partitives. Linguistics 59(4),
881-947. <br>
Seržant, I. 2021. Diachronic typology of partitives. In: Giuliana
Giusti & Petra Sleeman (eds.), Partitive Determiners,
Partitive Pronouns and Partitive Case. [Linguistiche Arbeiten].
Berlin: De Gruyter. <br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
Ilja
<p></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 30.01.2024 um 15:04 schrieb John
Peterson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:29d60f7fd34b90ac365ab35b01b6699b@isfas.uni-kiel.de">
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<p>Dear list members,</p>
<p>My co-author and I are currently finishing up work on the case
system of Standard Goan Konkani (Indo-Aryan, Indo-European) and
have run into a terminological problem.</p>
<p>To keep it short, there are two cases in Konkani which derive
from earlier case stacking with the inessive case followed by
either the genitive or the ablative. However, from a synchronic
perspective these must be considered two cases in their own
right in the modern language, even though their origins from
case stacking are still transparent.</p>
<p>With the genitive, this form (<= inessive + genitive)
denotes an entity out of a possible group of similar entities,
for example in the first example below, ‘one coconut tree among
those in 2002’, i.e., ‘among those which were planted in 2002’
(my apologies in advance for the format!):<br>
<br>
</p>
<p><em>atã<strong> <u>don hɵjar</u></strong><u>
<strong>don-a=ntl-ɔ ek
maɖ</strong></u></em><br>
now two thousand two-OBL=INESS.GEN-M.SG one
coconut.tree.M</p>
<p><em>lag-lɵl-ɔ na.<br>
</em>bear.fruit-PST.PERF-M.SG NEG.PRS.3SG<em><br>
</em>‘Now not <strong><u>one coconut tree among those [planted]
in 2002</u></strong> bore fruit.’</p>
<p>With the other form, from the inessive and a form similar to
(and deriving from) the ablative (<= inessive + ablative),
the semantics are ‘from within a place or group’, as in the next
example:</p>
<p><strong><em>
</em></strong><em>bhijovn</em><strong><em><br>
<u>payp-a=ntɵlyan udɵk</u></em></strong><em>
soɖ-un ekɵmek-ã=k
bhij-ɵy-un<br>
</em>pipe-OBL=INESS.ABL water release-CVB
RECIP-OBL.PL=OBJ get.wet-CAUS-CVB</p>
<p><em>mɵj-e=n dhuɭvɵɖ
mɵnɵy-l-i.<br>
</em>fun-OBL=INST.SG sprinkling.of.colors.during.Holi.F
celebrate-PST-F.SG<br>
‘[The boys and girls] turned on (lit. ‘released’) the faucet (=
‘the <strong><u>water from in the pipe</u></strong>’), got each
other wet and had fun (= through fun) celebrated the throwing of
colors of Holi.’</p>
<p>A search for similar cases in other languages has so far not
turned up any results, and we have not yet found a good term of
our own for these two cases, only the rather cumbersome
“inessive genitive” and “inessive ablative” (or the equally
unfortunate “genessive”/“ablessive”), so any suggestions from
the list as to how to name these would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>Many thanks in advance!</p>
<p>Best,<br>
John</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="signature">-- <br>
<div class="pre"
style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">John
Peterson<br>
Linguistik und Phonetik (ISFAS)<br>
Leibnizstr. 10<br>
D-24118 Kiel<br>
Germany<br>
<br>
<br>
Tel.: (+49) (0)431-880 2414<br>
Fax: (+49) (0)431-880 7405<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.isfas.uni-kiel.de/de/linguistik/mitarbeitende/john-peterson"
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<br>
"Nós temos duas vidas e a segunda começa quando você percebe
que você só tem uma…" (Mário de Andrade)</div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof. Ilja A. Seržant, dr., habil.
Chair Slavic linguistics, head of the dept
Department of Slavonic Studies, University of Potsdam
Am Neuen Palais 10, Haus 01, D-14469 Potsdam
Tel. + 49 331 977 4152; Room 1.1.2.06
URL: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.uni-potsdam.de/de/slavische-linguistik/team/serzant">https://www.uni-potsdam.de/de/slavische-linguistik/team/serzant</a>
Potsdam Slavic Variation Lab: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.uni-potsdam.de/de/slavische-linguistik/slavic-variation-lab">https://www.uni-potsdam.de/de/slavische-linguistik/slavic-variation-lab</a>
PoSla Typology Lab: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.uni-potsdam.de/de/slavische-linguistik/posla-typology-lab">https://www.uni-potsdam.de/de/slavische-linguistik/posla-typology-lab</a></pre>
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