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<div dir="auto">Dear Östen,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In my variety of BCMS (Bosnian-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian) from Belgrade, and somewhat in line with some of the responses above, I'd say the translation really depends on my (the speaker's) attitude to the proposition (Mary sending her
application today). <br></div>
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<div dir="auto">If I do not want to commit to state that she has managed/will manage to send it in the course of today, I'd probably say:</div>
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<div dir="auto">(1) </div><div dir="auto">Danas bi trebalo da Marija aplicira za grant.</div><div dir="auto">today. COND ought.PST.SG.N that Mary.F.SG.NOM apply.PRS.IPFV for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM</div>
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</div><div dir="auto">(2)</div>
<div dir="auto">Trebalo bi da je Marija danas aplicirala za grant.</div>
<div dir="auto">ought.PST.SG.N COND that be.PRS.3SG Mary.F.SG.NOM today <a href="http://apply.PST.F.SG" target="_blank">apply.PST.F.SG</a> for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM</div><div dir="auto"><br></div>
<div dir="auto">Note that many speakers of my variety conjugate <i>treba(ti)</i> as a finite verb (a use rejected by prescriptivists, i.e. by the standard variety of Serbian, which only allow the form <i>treba</i> in the non-past and <i>trebalo</i> in the past tense), hence one encounters also <i>trebala je da aplicira</i>, <i>trebala je aplicirati</i> etc. Also, the verb <i>aplicirati</i> is rather new (and is biaspectual) and can be replaced by a more "traditional" <i>prijaviti se </i>(PFV) or<i> </i>prijavljivati<i> se </i>(IPFV), and the noun <i>grant</i> can also be replaced by a number of alternatives, such as <i>finansiranje </i>(+ GEN)<i>, finansijska sredstva (za ....),</i> <i>stipendija</i>, etc. </div>
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<div dir="auto">If the speaker feels comfortable stating that she will send her application today, I'd go for the present tense (3), the past tense (4) if I am certain she already has submitted it or the future if I am certain she has not done it yet but will do so by the end of the day (5)</div>
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<div dir="auto">(3) <br>Marija danas aplicira za grant.</div>
<div>Mary.F.SG.NOM today apply.PRS.3SG for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM </div>
<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">(4) <br>Marija je danas aplicirala za grant.</div>
<div dir="auto"><div>Mary.F.SG.NOM be.PRS.3SG today <a href="http://apply.PST.F.SG">apply.PST.F.SG</a> for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM </div><div dir="auto"><br></div>
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<div dir="auto">(5) <br>Marija će danas aplicirati za grant.</div>
<div dir="auto"><div>Mary.F.SG.NOM will.PRS.3SG today apply.INF for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM </div><div dir="auto"><br></div>
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<div>Best,</div><div>Stefan</div>
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<div dir="auto" id="m_1313709544426538804m_3908613255728668094ms-outlook-mobile-signature">Sent from <a href="https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
Outlook for Android</a></div>
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<div id="m_1313709544426538804m_3908613255728668094divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Lidia Federica Mazzitelli <<a href="mailto:lfmazzitelli@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lfmazzitelli@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 15, 2024 11:43:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Östen Dahl <<a href="mailto:oesten@ling.su.se" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">oesten@ling.su.se</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Intuitions about inclusive time reference</font>
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<div dir="auto">Dear Östen, </div>
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<div dir="auto">In Italian I would say: </div>
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<div dir="auto">"<i>Oggi Mary spedisce la domanda</i>" ** Today Mary submits the application' - if I am just fact-stating (In a context like Colleague A: "How's it going with that proposal Mary has been working on? ME:
<i>Tutto bene, oggi la spedisce </i>"All good, today she submits it" - it is fine both in case she already sent it/ she has not yet sent it.)</div>
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<div dir="auto"> "<i>Oggi Mary dovrebbe spedire la domanda</i>" 'Today Mary should submit the application' (who knows if she will at all?) - if chatting with a third colleague about Mary (and I am unsure whether she will be submitting the application at all). </div>
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<div dir="auto">(** Please note: In real life I'd say "<i>oggi Maria<b> sottomette</b> la domanda per la grant</i>", o "oggi
<i>Maria sottomette <b>l'applicazione</b></i><b>" </b>but I would then have to endure endless reprimands from purists who say "you don't use "sottomettere" and "applicare"/"applicazione" in Italian with that meaning!" - even if almost everyone uses them (and
I fully endorse this use). I don't even try to translate grant, so I blocked it out from my translation.)<br>
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<div>My intuition on Lakurumau, an Oceanic language of PNG, is that they would use the irrealis - unless they were absolutely certain she had already sent it (But that's not the context you imagined, right?)</div>
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<div>T<i>aning</i><i> Mary <b>ka=daa lis paan-in </b> a application pan=a grant</i></div>
<div>today M. 3SG.S=IRR send go-APPL ART application OBL=ART grant</div>
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<div>Best,</div>
<div>Lidia </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Il mer 14 feb 2024, 22:29 Östen Dahl <<a href="mailto:oesten@ling.su.se" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">oesten@ling.su.se</a>> ha scritto:<br>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">I would like to ask for intuitions about the following, in one or more languages that you are acquainted with.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Suppose your colleague Mary said on Monday: "Tomorrow I'm going to submit my grant proposal." Now it's about noon on Tuesday, and you have no idea whatsoever of the time of the realization of her intention. Maybe she
did it in the morning, maybe she'll wait until midnight, and maybe she's just doing it right now. How would you express the sentence below in your language(s), replacing SUBMIT by a suitable verb form? The idea is that you should try to use a maximally simple
and natural formulation without excluding any possibility.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Today Mary SUBMIT her grant proposal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">All comments are welcome.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Thanks in advance!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="SV">- Östen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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