<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Pun,</div><div><br></div><div>In my survey of Australian languages, I found temporal 'before' markers to be the least commonly attested out of the three basic temporal relations (before, while, after). Although I have a few examples for 'right after' (marked by either sequential markers, simultaneous markers like 'as soon as', or an undedicated linking marker), I haven't come across any for 'right before', or at least anything that could be construed along those lines. <br></div><div><br></div><div>This is a bit surprising, since quite a few Australian languages do have the resources for marking immediate sequentiality -- e.g. serial and sequential verb inflections (marking immediate sequence on the level of the verb, clause), sequential discourse markers (marking sequence up to the level of the sentence/text), 'immediate' aspect markers, and -- in some languages -- markers of exactitude and limitation ('just...', 'right...'). So it's a good question why 'right before' is so hard to find here.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Ellison Luk<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 09:58, Guillaume Jacques via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Pun Ho Lui,</div><div><br></div><div></div><div>In my Japhug grammar (<a href="https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295" target="_blank">https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295</a>),
the meaning "right before" is treated in the section on what I call
"immediate precedence" ("be about to") §25.3.2.2 p.1399-1400. It seems
to me that your example <i>Right before I sleep, I brush my teeth</i>. could be reformulated as <i>As I was about to go to sleep, I brushed my teeth</i>.
without changing the truth conditions of this sentence (if I am
mistaken here, please don't hesitate to comment). In my translations, I
sometimes use "just before..." to convey this meaning. It can be
expressed by four main constructions: an adverb (tɤkʰa), the
morphological proximate jɯ- (44), the periphrastic proximate and a
construction with the verb mda "be the time (144).</div><div><br></div><div>(44) [ɕɤr jɯ-jɤ-azɣɯt] tɕe (...) ɯ-kɤrme nɯ pjɤ-ɕɯ-ɴqoʁ \\<br>night \{prox}-\{aor}-arrive \{lnk} { } \{3sg}.\{poss}-hair \{dem} \{ifr}-\{caus}-hang<br></div><div></div><div>‘Just before the night fell, [the witch] hung her hair [on the window of the tower].’</div><div>p.1400<br></div><div><br></div><div>(144) tɕe ɯʑo si tɤ-mda kóʁmɯz nɤ nɯ [mɯ-pjɤ-pe] nɯ ko-tso ri ɲɤ-maqʰu ɲɯ-ŋu. <br>\{lnk}
\{3sg} die:\{fact} \{aor}-be.the.time only.then \{add} \{dem}
\{neg}-\{ifr}.\{ipfv}-be.good \{dem} \{ifr}-understand \{lnk}
\{ifr}-be.late \{sens}-be</div><div>‘Just before dying, he understood that [what he had done] was not good,<br>but it was too late.’</div><div> p.1305</div><div><br></div><div>I hope this is what you are looking for, best wishes,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Guillaume</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 22 avr. 2024 à 04:41, Juergen Bohnemeyer via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Dear Joe Pun Ho Lui – If you are looking for adverbial connectives expressing ‘right before’, I got nothing. However, there are languages that have anaphoric temporal remoteness markers. In such languages,
immediate past markers convey ‘right before’ when used anaphorically (as opposed to with utterance time). A case in point is Yucatec (Bohnemeyer 2023). (Another language in which anaphoric temporal remoteness markers have been attested is Luganda (Klecha &
Bochnak 2015); however, the Luganda system does not include an immediate past marker.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Best – Juergen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Bohnemeyer, J. (2023). Elicitation and documentation of tense and aspect.
<i>Language Documentation and Preservation</i> <i>Special Publication</i> 26: 59-98.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-US" style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Klecha, P., & M. R. Bochnak. (</span><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">2015). Temporal remoteness and relativity. Talk presented at
<i>NELS 46</i>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span style="color:black">Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Pun Ho Lui via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 21:31<br>
<b>To: </b><<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Encoding "right before" across languages<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in">To make things clear, the referred ‘right before’ encodes a temporal relationship, as in<i> Right before I sleep, I brush my teeth</i>.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in">Pun Ho Lui <<a href="mailto:luiph001@gmail.com" target="_blank">luiph001@gmail.com</a>> <span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">
於</span> 2024<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">年</span>4<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">月</span>22<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">日</span>
<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">上午</span>9:26 <span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">
寫道：</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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Dear all,<br>
<br>
In a number of cross-linguistic works on adverbial subordination (e.g. Olguin Martinez, 2022; Kortmann, 1997; Hetterle, 2015), the logically possible subordinating connective ‘right before’ is not covered. In my experience of reading grammar books, I don’t
feel like I have stumbled on any dedicated marker/construction for ‘right before’.<br>
<br>
To my knowledge, the encoding of ‘right before’ can be, obviously, with an adverbial ‘right'+’before’. Another strategy is ‘as soon as…before’ in Cantonese.<br>
<br>
I am wondering if you have stumbled on ‘right before’ in other languages.<br>
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Thank you.<br>
<br>
Warmest,<br>
Joe Pun Ho Lui<br>
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</div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Guillaume Jacques</div><div><br></div><div>Directeur de recherches<br>CNRS (CRLAO) - EPHE- INALCO <br></div><div><a href="https://scholar.google.fr/citations?user=1XCp2-oAAAAJ&hl=fr" target="_blank">https://scholar.google.fr/citations?user=1XCp2-oAAAAJ&hl=fr</a><br></div><div><a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" target="_blank">https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295</a></div><div><div><a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a></div></div></div></div>
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