<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Sergey,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Not about reflexive pronouns per se but Chini (Ramu-Lower Sepik) has double ("redundant") middle voice marking. As far as I know this construction is limited to verbs of bodily functions that pattern as intransitives (so: shit, piss & puke). These verbs are middles to begin with (& w/ no transitive deponents). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Because the function of the middle voice in Chini is to express the main participant as a semantic patient (generally in terms of their control over the event), these verbs can get doubly middle-ified whenever someone accidentally shits/pisses/pukes on themselves. I write a bit more about it in the 2023 Puddu/Haspelmath/Janic volume on reflexives. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Cheers</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Joseph</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 9:01 AM <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Lingtyp mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. ?excessive/redundant? use of reflexive pronouns (Sergey Loesov)<br>
2. Re: Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
"authenticity/prototypicality" (Randy J. LaPolla)<br>
3. Re: Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
"authenticity/prototypicality" (Pin Wang)<br>
4. Re: Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
"authenticity/prototypicality" (Mark Donohue)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2024 21:11:31 +0300<br>
From: Sergey Loesov <<a href="mailto:sergeloesov@gmail.com" target="_blank">sergeloesov@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] ?excessive/redundant? use of reflexive pronouns<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAPsdrac8Jy1FF2KAN4-63r-==<a href="mailto:GUej7M6oFiEYR7W3kNQAVA9QQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">GUej7M6oFiEYR7W3kNQAVA9QQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
What do we know, cross-linguistically, about ?excessive/redundant? use of<br>
reflexive pronouns with verbs of leaving (transitives) and remaining<br>
(intransitives)? Is there an accepted explanation of this feature?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A well-known example is Spanish:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
dejarse atr?s ?to leave (for oneself) behind?:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
echando de menos todo lo que me dej? atr?s ?missing everything I left<br>
behind (for myself)?<br>
<br>
Le cont? c?mo la vida de mi madre se consum?a y c?mo me arrastraba a su<br>
combusti?n... c?mo sal? de aquel infierno y todo lo que me dej? atr?s<br>
<br>
I told him how my mother?s life was consuming itself and how it dragged me<br>
into her combustion... how I escaped from that hell and all that I left<br>
behind (for myself).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
quedarse atr?s ?to stay behind (for oneself):<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
El sentimiento de ?me quedo atr?s en la vida? es una experiencia<br>
relativamente com?n en la etapa final de la juventud.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In Spanish, it looks like one can equally well say ?todo lo que dej? atr?s?<br>
and ?quedo atr?s en la vida?, without the reflexive marker.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
What prompts its appearance?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you very much,<br>
<br>
Sergey<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2024 02:26:28 +0800<br>
From: "Randy J. LaPolla" <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" target="_blank">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Mira Ariel <<a href="mailto:mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il" target="_blank">mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: Nigel Vincent <<a href="mailto:nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk" target="_blank">nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk</a>>,<br>
"<<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
"authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:971E7561-5CD1-4A15-AE10-2D511C7E66A1@gmail.com" target="_blank">971E7561-5CD1-4A15-AE10-2D511C7E66A1@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi again Mira,<br>
A more exact natural example of what you are talking about was used by Larry Horn teaching Pragmatics many years ago: At an LSA conference someone got ill, so one person got up on stage and asked the attendees ?Is there a doctor in the house?? and half the audience raised their hands. The person then said, ?No, a doctor doctor!?<br>
<br>
Randy<br>
<br>
> On 10 Jul 2024, at 8:55?PM, Mira Ariel <<a href="mailto:mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il" target="_blank">mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Dear Nigel,<br>
> <br>
> Yes, this is the trajectory Bardenstein and Ariel talk about. Better think of ?a cookie cookie?. That can have both prototypical and intensified meanings.<br>
> Mira<br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
> <br>
>> On 10 Jul 2024, at 15:40, Nigel Vincent via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> ?<br>
>> Interesting - I'd have interpreted that ad to mean not 'central/prototype' but something more evaluative: 'the best you can get' or words to that effect. The picture doesn't look like what I would consider a prototype cookie (or biscuit, as I would say!).<br>
>> Nigel<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
>> Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
>> The University of Manchester<br>
>> <br>
>> Linguistics & English Language<br>
>> School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
>> The University of Manchester<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <a href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a><br>
>> From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Randy LaPolla via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>> Sent: 10 July 2024 2:23 PM<br>
>> To: <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
>> <br>
>> ?Mira?s message reminded me of an English example where repetition narrows the term to central/prototype inferences:<br>
>> <br>
>> <image.png><br>
>> <br>
>> In case the image doesn?t come out, it is the tag line on Pepperidge Farms? Captiva cookie:<br>
>> ?If you?re going to have a cookie, have a cookie?<br>
>> <br>
>> Randy<br>
>> <br>
>>> On Jul 10, 2024, at 15:42, Mira Ariel via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?<br>
>>> Dear Francesca and others,<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I'm curious to know if these prototypicalization morphemes sometimes evolve an intensifying function later. <br>
>>> <br>
>>> Bardenstein and I have a paper in Studies in Language 46:2 (2022), where we trace the evolution of a number of intensifiers. Lo and behold, they evolve from expressions which narrow the application of the term to its central/prototpycal instances. Later on this narrower may evolve an intensifying function. We only discuss independent modifiers, but reduplication, even morphological one, can indicate intensification:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Hebrew:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Yafe????????yafe??????????????????????????<br>
>>> Beautiful???beautiful???????????????????????<br>
>>> 'Central concept of beautiful (not 'more or less beautiful')'/'Very beautiful'????????<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Yefe.fe (lexical reduplication)?????????????????<br>
>>> 'Very beautiful'?????????????????????????????<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Best,<br>
>>> Mira (Ariel)<br>
>>> From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Riccardo Giomi via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 9:07 PM<br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Dear Francesca (and all),<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Leti (Austronesian) has an "exactness" marker -- which again, actually appears to be a clitic, but anyway:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> a.????N-tivl=e.????????????????b.???N-tivla.<br>
>>> ???????????3.SG-flap=EXCT??????????????3.SG-flap<br>
>>> ????????????It flaps.???????????????????????It sort of flaps.?<br>
>>> ???<br>
>>> ??(2) a.????vuar=lalavn=e????????????b.???vuar=lalavn<br>
>>> ??????????big=mountain=EXCT???????????big=mountain<br>
>>> ???????????a big mountain?????????????????a sort of a big mountain?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> van Engelenhoven, Aone, 2004. Leti, a Language of Southwest Maluku (Verhandelingen van het Koninklijk Instituut voor Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 211). KITLV Press, Leiden.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Best wishes,<br>
>>> Riccardo<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Riccardo Giomi<br>
>>> Assistant Professor of Functional Linguistics<br>
>>> University of Amsterdam<br>
>>> Faculty of Humanities: Department of Linguistics<br>
>>> Spuistraat 134, 1012 VB, Amsterdam, The Netherlands<br>
>>> From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>> Sent: 09 July 2024 19:44<br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Dear Francesca,<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Cabecar (Chibchan) has a a formative si?? with a twofold distribution:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> a) As a derivational suffix on nouns, it means 'authentic', 'prototypical':<br>
>>> a. chi?chi-si??<br>
>>> <br>
>>> dog-auth<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?authentic dog?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> b. ju-si??<br>
>>> <br>
>>> house-auth<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?authentic/real/legitimate house (i.e. traditional Cabecar house)?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> b) As an enclitic on adjectives, it means 'comparatively':<br>
>>> a. b??=si??<br>
>>> <br>
>>> nice=cmpr<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?comparatively/truly nice?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> b. dal??=si??<br>
>>> <br>
>>> yellow=cmpr<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?genuinely yellow?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> It fulfills this latter function in comparative constructions, too.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Best, Christian<br>
>>> <br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
>>> Rudolfstr. 4<br>
>>> 99092 Erfurt<br>
>>> Deutschland<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Tel.: +49/361/2113417<br>
>>> E-Post: <a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a>><br>
>>> Web: <a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a> [<a href="http://christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">christianlehmann.eu</a>] <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.christianlehmann.eu/__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71U4cNPeQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.christianlehmann.eu/__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71U4cNPeQ$</a>>_______________________________________________<br>
>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>
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>>> <a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a> [<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71eH5g__g$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71eH5g__g$</a>><br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:48:12 +0800<br>
From: Pin Wang <<a href="mailto:wangpin@sjtu.edu.cn" target="_blank">wangpin@sjtu.edu.cn</a>><br>
To: "Randy J. LaPolla" <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" target="_blank">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Mira Ariel <<a href="mailto:mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il" target="_blank">mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il</a>>,<br>
"<<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
"authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1E85959F-1E04-4AFF-BF36-28907A17DBCB@sjtu.edu.cn" target="_blank">1E85959F-1E04-4AFF-BF36-28907A17DBCB@sjtu.edu.cn</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Randy,<br>
<br>
I?d like to add an example: When chairing your talk at our 2018 language typology forum (University of Sydney), Prof Christian Matthiessen introduced you as a ?linguist linguist? ;-)<br>
<br>
Pin<br>
<br>
<br>
> On 12 Jul 2024, at 2:26 am, Randy J. LaPolla via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi again Mira,<br>
> A more exact natural example of what you are talking about was used by Larry Horn teaching Pragmatics many years ago: At an LSA conference someone got ill, so one person got up on stage and asked the attendees ?Is there a doctor in the house?? and half the audience raised their hands. The person then said, ?No, a doctor doctor!?<br>
> <br>
> Randy<br>
> <br>
>> On 10 Jul 2024, at 8:55?PM, Mira Ariel <<a href="mailto:mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il" target="_blank">mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> Dear Nigel,<br>
>> <br>
>> Yes, this is the trajectory Bardenstein and Ariel talk about. Better think of ?a cookie cookie?. That can have both prototypical and intensified meanings.<br>
>> Mira<br>
>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>> <br>
>>> On 10 Jul 2024, at 15:40, Nigel Vincent via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?<br>
>>> Interesting - I'd have interpreted that ad to mean not 'central/prototype' but something more evaluative: 'the best you can get' or words to that effect. The picture doesn't look like what I would consider a prototype cookie (or biscuit, as I would say!).<br>
>>> Nigel<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
>>> Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
>>> The University of Manchester<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Linguistics & English Language<br>
>>> School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
>>> The University of Manchester<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a><br>
>>> From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Randy LaPolla via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>> Sent: 10 July 2024 2:23 PM<br>
>>> To: <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?Mira?s message reminded me of an English example where repetition narrows the term to central/prototype inferences:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <image.png><br>
>>> <br>
>>> In case the image doesn?t come out, it is the tag line on Pepperidge Farms? Captiva cookie:<br>
>>> ?If you?re going to have a cookie, have a cookie?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Randy<br>
>>> <br>
>>>> On Jul 10, 2024, at 15:42, Mira Ariel via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ?<br>
>>>> Dear Francesca and others,<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> I'm curious to know if these prototypicalization morphemes sometimes evolve an intensifying function later. <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Bardenstein and I have a paper in Studies in Language 46:2 (2022), where we trace the evolution of a number of intensifiers. Lo and behold, they evolve from expressions which narrow the application of the term to its central/prototpycal instances. Later on this narrower may evolve an intensifying function. We only discuss independent modifiers, but reduplication, even morphological one, can indicate intensification:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Hebrew:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Yafe????????yafe??????????????????????????<br>
>>>> Beautiful???beautiful???????????????????????<br>
>>>> 'Central concept of beautiful (not 'more or less beautiful')'/'Very beautiful'????????<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Yefe.fe (lexical reduplication)?????????????????<br>
>>>> 'Very beautiful'?????????????????????????????<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Best,<br>
>>>> Mira (Ariel)<br>
>>>> From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Riccardo Giomi via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 9:07 PM<br>
>>>> To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Dear Francesca (and all),<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Leti (Austronesian) has an "exactness" marker -- which again, actually appears to be a clitic, but anyway:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> a.????N-tivl=e.????????????????b.???N-tivla.<br>
>>>> ???????????3.SG-flap=EXCT??????????????3.SG-flap<br>
>>>> ????????????It flaps.???????????????????????It sort of flaps.?<br>
>>>> ???<br>
>>>> ??(2) a.????vuar=lalavn=e????????????b.???vuar=lalavn<br>
>>>> ??????????big=mountain=EXCT???????????big=mountain<br>
>>>> ???????????a big mountain?????????????????a sort of a big mountain?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> van Engelenhoven, Aone, 2004. Leti, a Language of Southwest Maluku (Verhandelingen van het Koninklijk Instituut voor Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 211). KITLV Press, Leiden.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Best wishes,<br>
>>>> Riccardo<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Riccardo Giomi<br>
>>>> Assistant Professor of Functional Linguistics<br>
>>>> University of Amsterdam<br>
>>>> Faculty of Humanities: Department of Linguistics<br>
>>>> Spuistraat 134, 1012 VB, Amsterdam, The Netherlands<br>
>>>> From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>>> Sent: 09 July 2024 19:44<br>
>>>> To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Dear Francesca,<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Cabecar (Chibchan) has a a formative si?? with a twofold distribution:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> a) As a derivational suffix on nouns, it means 'authentic', 'prototypical':<br>
>>>> <>a. chi?chi-si??<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> dog-auth<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ?authentic dog?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> b. ju-si??<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> house-auth<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ?authentic/real/legitimate house (i.e. traditional Cabecar house)?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> b) As an enclitic on adjectives, it means 'comparatively':<br>
>>>> <>a. b??=si??<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> nice=cmpr<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ?comparatively/truly nice?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> b. dal??=si??<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> yellow=cmpr<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ?genuinely yellow?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> It fulfills this latter function in comparative constructions, too.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Best, Christian<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> -- <br>
>>>> Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
>>>> Rudolfstr. 4<br>
>>>> 99092 Erfurt<br>
>>>> Deutschland<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Tel.: +49/361/2113417<br>
>>>> E-Post: <a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a>><br>
>>>> Web: <a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a> [<a href="http://christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">christianlehmann.eu</a>] <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.christianlehmann.eu/__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71U4cNPeQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.christianlehmann.eu/__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71U4cNPeQ$</a>>_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>
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>>>> <a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a> [<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71eH5g__g$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71eH5g__g$</a>><br>
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> <br>
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<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2024 10:38:31 +1000<br>
From: Mark Donohue <<a href="mailto:mhdonohue@gmail.com" target="_blank">mhdonohue@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Pin Wang <<a href="mailto:wangpin@sjtu.edu.cn" target="_blank">wangpin@sjtu.edu.cn</a>><br>
Cc: "Randy J. LaPolla" <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" target="_blank">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
"<<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
"authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAKyRuzQ+6Sr2FBhA0RoyhyU8=WTVz=<a href="mailto:P_7vnu0e7K3hMB2_5UWQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">P_7vnu0e7K3hMB2_5UWQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Don't forget<br>
<br>
Jila Ghomeshi, Ray Jackendoff, Nicole Rosen and Kevin Russell. 2004. Natural<br>
Language & Linguistic Theory 22 (2): 307-357.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 at 09:48, Pin Wang via Lingtyp <<br>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi Randy,<br>
><br>
> I?d like to add an example: When chairing your talk at our 2018 language<br>
> typology forum (University of Sydney), Prof Christian Matthiessen<br>
> introduced you as a ?linguist linguist? ;-)<br>
><br>
> Pin<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12 Jul 2024, at 2:26 am, Randy J. LaPolla via Lingtyp <<br>
> <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi again Mira,<br>
> A more exact natural example of what you are talking about was used by<br>
> Larry Horn teaching Pragmatics many years ago: At an LSA conference someone<br>
> got ill, so one person got up on stage and asked the attendees ?Is there a<br>
> doctor in the house?? and half the audience raised their hands. The person<br>
> then said, ?No, a *doctor* doctor!?<br>
><br>
> Randy<br>
><br>
> On 10 Jul 2024, at 8:55?PM, Mira Ariel <<a href="mailto:mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il" target="_blank">mariel@tauex.tau.ac.il</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear Nigel,<br>
><br>
> Yes, this is the trajectory Bardenstein and Ariel talk about. Better think<br>
> of ?a cookie cookie?. That can have both prototypical and intensified<br>
> meanings.<br>
> Mira<br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
><br>
> On 10 Jul 2024, at 15:40, Nigel Vincent via Lingtyp <<br>
> <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> ?<br>
> Interesting - I'd have interpreted that ad to mean not 'central/prototype'<br>
> but something more evaluative: 'the best you can get' or words to that<br>
> effect. The picture doesn't look like what I would consider a prototype<br>
> cookie (or biscuit, as I would say!).<br>
> Nigel<br>
><br>
><br>
> Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
> Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
> The University of Manchester<br>
><br>
> Linguistics & English Language<br>
> School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
> The University of Manchester<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> *From:* Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of<br>
> Randy LaPolla via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> *Sent:* 10 July 2024 2:23 PM<br>
> *To:* <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> <<br>
> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
> "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
><br>
> ?Mira?s message reminded me of an English example where repetition narrows<br>
> the term to central/prototype inferences:<br>
><br>
> <image.png><br>
><br>
> In case the image doesn?t come out, it is the tag line on Pepperidge<br>
> Farms? Captiva cookie:<br>
> ?If you?re going to have a cookie, have a *cookie*?<br>
><br>
> Randy<br>
><br>
> On Jul 10, 2024, at 15:42, Mira Ariel via Lingtyp <<br>
> <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> ?<br>
> Dear Francesca and others,<br>
><br>
> I'm curious to know if these prototypicalization morphemes sometimes<br>
> evolve an intensifying function later.<br>
><br>
> Bardenstein and I have a paper in *Studies in* *Language *46:2 (2022),<br>
> where we trace the evolution of a number of intensifiers. Lo and behold,<br>
> they evolve from expressions which narrow the application of the term to<br>
> its central/prototpycal instances. Later on this narrower may evolve an<br>
> intensifying function. We only discuss independent modifiers, but<br>
> reduplication, even morphological one, can indicate intensification:<br>
><br>
> Hebrew:<br>
><br>
> *Yafe yafe *<br>
> Beautiful beautiful<br>
> 'Central concept of beautiful (not 'more or less beautiful')'/'Very<br>
> beautiful'<br>
><br>
> *Yefe.fe *(lexical reduplication)<br>
> 'Very beautiful'<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Mira (Ariel)<br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> *From:* Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of<br>
> Riccardo Giomi via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 9, 2024 9:07 PM<br>
> *To:* <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
> ><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
> "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
><br>
> Dear Francesca (and all),<br>
><br>
> Leti (Austronesian) has an "exactness" marker -- which again, actually<br>
> appears to be a clitic, but anyway:<br>
><br>
><br>
> 1. a. *N-tivl=**e**.* b. *N-tivla.*<br>
><br>
> 3.SG-flap=*EXCT *3.SG-flap<br>
> ?It flaps.? ?It sort of flaps.?<br>
> (2) a. *vuar=lalavn=**e* b. *vuar=lalavn*<br>
> big=mountain=*EXCT* big=mountain<br>
> ?a big mountain? ?a sort of a big mountain?<br>
><br>
> van Engelenhoven, Aone, 2004. *Leti, a Language of Southwest Maluku *(Verhandelingen<br>
> van het Koninklijk Instituut voor Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 211). KITLV<br>
> Press, Leiden.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
> Riccardo<br>
><br>
> Riccardo Giomi<br>
> Assistant Professor of Functional Linguistics<br>
> University of Amsterdam<br>
> Faculty of Humanities: Department of Linguistics<br>
> Spuistraat 134, 1012 VB, Amsterdam, The Netherlands<br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> *From:* Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of<br>
> Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> *Sent:* 09 July 2024 19:44<br>
> *To:* <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
> ><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Evaluative morphology expressing<br>
> "authenticity/prototypicality"<br>
><br>
> Dear Francesca,<br>
><br>
> Cabecar (Chibchan) has a a formative *s??* with a twofold distribution:<br>
><br>
> a) As a derivational suffix on nouns, it means 'authentic', 'prototypical':<br>
><br>
> 1.<br>
><br>
> a. ch?chi-s??<br>
><br>
> dog-auth<br>
><br>
> ?authentic dog?<br>
><br>
> b. ju-s??<br>
><br>
> house-auth<br>
><br>
> ?authentic/real/legitimate house (i.e. traditional Cabecar<br>
> house)?<br>
> b) As an enclitic on adjectives, it means 'comparatively':<br>
><br>
> 1.<br>
><br>
> a. b??=s??<br>
><br>
> nice=cmpr<br>
><br>
> ?comparatively/truly nice?<br>
><br>
> b. dal??=s??<br>
><br>
> yellow=cmpr<br>
><br>
> ?genuinely yellow?<br>
><br>
> It fulfills this latter function in comparative constructions, too.<br>
><br>
> Best, Christian<br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
> Rudolfstr. 4<br>
> 99092 Erfurt<br>
> Deutschland<br>
> Tel.: +49/361/2113417<br>
> E-Post: <a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a><br>
> Web: <a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a> [<a href="http://christianlehmann.eu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">christianlehmann.eu</a>]<br>
> <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.christianlehmann.eu/__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71U4cNPeQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.christianlehmann.eu/__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Dc5B3RGgs9CwKb_HPO365SAFRXwA7GEwDM7386bdhfSqmL0-MWBa7VFnxqlSZY_CISTmbETs_J9ra_VBnE5f1tdqEw3hk71U4cNPeQ$</a>><br>
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</blockquote></div></div>