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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">I don’t think so, Randy. It seems to me that all mentioned uses of the English possessive addressee pronoun involve generic reference. Certainly, the list examples are generic. And I can’t think of
a single example in which a determiner in a non-generic definite NP could be replaced by the possessive 2<sup>nd</sup>-person pronoun unless speaker actually intended to present the referent as possessed by the addressee.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">I wonder what the etymology of this use is. My hypothesis is that it involves typicality and the speaker leaving it metaphorically to the addressee to fill in whatever the addressee assumes to be the
prototype. Thereby apparently implying that the prototype is not controversial between the interlocutors. Which in turn further boosts its presumed typicality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Best – Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"CMU Serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"CMU Serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span style="color:black">Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla@gmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 06:43<br>
<b>To: </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77@buffalo.edu><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Marianne Mithun <mithun@linguistics.ucsb.edu>, <LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Discourse functions of possessive markers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks, Nigel, Andrew, Marianne, and Jürgen!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Jürgen, I think the generic sense of the examples you cite might come from the use of “average” with the phrase, but also might be partially due to the larger context.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Randy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 18 Jul 2024, at 3:58<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM, Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77@buffalo.edu> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Dear all – You‘ll find plenty of examples in COCA etc. if you search for the phrase _<i>your average</i>_:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Your</span></b><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> <b>average</b> polite American will look the waiter or waitress in the eye, smile, have…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Their problem was simply a poor location in the minds of <b>your</b> <b>average</b> theater-goer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">…CHopper would have packed a bigger punch and would have traveled much farther than <b>your</b> <b>average</b> motorcycle. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">And on and on. But, this use seems to be restricted to a form of generic reference. I don’t think this is about definiteness per se or definiteness in any narrow sense.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif"">Best – Juergen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"CMU Serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>From: </b>Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Marianne Mithun via Lingtyp <LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 15:26<br>
<b>To: </b>Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b><LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Discourse functions of possessive markers<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Dear Misha and Zahra,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Good observation. I was thinking of exactly the kinds of examples Randy mentions second:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">What kinds of linguists are there? Well, you’ve got your formalists, your functionalists, your cognitivists, your typologists . . .<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Pretty common, I'd say, at least in North America. (Not something I myself would say, of course!)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Marianne<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 11:38<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM Randy J. LaPolla via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Dear Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Are you thinking of the listing use of “your”, as in the following made-up example? (I normally don’t like using made-up examples, but when I tried to search for a natural example the results were overwhelmed by
the song “You’ve got your troubles and I‘ve got mine”.)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">What kinds of linguists are there? Well, you’ve got your formalists, your functionalists, your cognitivists, your typologists . . .<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Here “your” could be replaced by “the”, so it does seem to fit what Zahra is looking for. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">I have certainly heard this sort of thing, but don’t know if it is restricted to a particular region, though to my ear it sounds better with a Brooklyn accent (as does everything else ;-) ).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Randy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">On 18 Jul 2024, at 2:10<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM, Michael Daniel via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Dear Zahra, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">I think I heard a variety of American English where "your" was used in a very much discourse way, literally on one NP out of three or four. I cannot describe the function properly (probably, supporting contact
with the interlocutor) and cannot place it regionally - maybe native speakers will help.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Michael Daniel<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">--<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Михаил Даниэль<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><i>Я осуждаю агрессию моей страны против Украины.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Michael Daniel<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><i>I condemn my country's aggression in Ukraine.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">вт, 16 июл. 2024<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>г. в 14:53, Zahra Etebari Shekarsaraei via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">I am preparing a dataset for development of discourse functions in possessive/personal markers cross-linguistically. I am particularly interested in constructions (relevant examples below) where a possessive/personal
marker is used not to convey possession or refer to another item, but to denote functions such as definiteness, topicality, emphasis or contrast.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:.5in"><u>Definiteness</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in">Kútip tur<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ǵ</span>an
<b>adamı</b> kelmedi. [Karakalpak]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><b>The person</b> he/she has been waiting for did not come.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in">(Utepovich 2023: 80)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:.5in"><u>Contrast</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in">Ulizy-vylizy kyk bratjos,
<b>pokći-ez</b> [Udmurt]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> lived-were.3SG two brothers
<b>younger.brother-3SG</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> kuaner,
<b>by</b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ȝ</span>ym-ez</b> uzyr.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> Poor
<b>older.brother-3SG</b> rich<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> There lived two brothers, the younger one was poor, the older one was rich.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> (Serebrennikov 1963: 133)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">So far, I have collected cases from over 60 language varieties spanning Uralic (Ugric, Permic, Mari, Mordvin, Samoyed), Altaic (Turkic, Tungusic, Mongolic), Indo-European (Iranic), Afro-Asiatic (Semitic), and Austronesian
(Javanese, Malay) families. If you have encountered similar uses in a language you work on or if you are aware of any lesser-known source on this topic, especially non-English sources, I would be extremely grateful if you could share them with me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Many thanks for your time!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Zahra<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">References:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Serebrennikov, Boris A. 1963. <i>Istoriceskaja Morfologija Permskix Jazykov</i> [Historical morphology of the Permic languages]. Moscow:
<span style="color:black;background:white">Izdateľstvo AN SSSR</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Utepovich, Bekbergenov H. 2023. Semantic peculiarities of the possessive affixes in the Karakalpak language and their equivalents in English.
<i>Journal of Advanced Linguistic Studies</i>. 10(2). 64-82.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Zahra Etebari</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Postdoctoral researcher</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Department of Linguistics and Philology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Uppsala University</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">75126 Uppsala, Sweden</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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