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Dear Christian, Johanna and all,</div>
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Johanna already gave examples in Finnish, so I'm late, sorry. Observe, however, something similar in Slavic:</div>
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two-way action</div>
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In Russian many imperfective verbs allow a ”two-way” action, e.g., <i>vyxodit’</i> ‘go out (and come back)’,
<i>otkryvat’</i> ‘open (and close again)’. This is typically illustrated by a group of (“indetermined”) movement verbs as
<i>ezdit’</i> ‘go/ride/drive/travel’ (e.g., <i>Nedavno my ezdili v gorod</i> ‘We recently went to the town’), with a semelfactive perfective counterpart (<i>My s”ezdili v gorod</i>).</div>
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In Finnish, the multi-faceted verb <i>käydä</i> ‘go, run’ has this as one of the key meanings:</div>
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Käv-i-mme eilen kaupungi-ssa / maa-lla.</div>
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go-PST-1PL yesterday town-INESS countryside-ADESS</div>
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‘We went to the town/countryside yesterday’</div>
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There is a notable difference between the constructions in Russian and in Finnish as to the expression of the goal: in Russian a lative noun phrase, in Finnish an inessive/adessive one.</div>
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Best wishes,</div>
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Hannu Tommola</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> käyttäjän Johanna Laakso via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> puolesta<br>
<b>Lähetetty:</b> torstai 8. elokuuta 2024 12.04<br>
<b>Vastaanottaja:</b> Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de><br>
<b>Kopio:</b> LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG><br>
<b>Aihe:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] retrolative</font>
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<div style="line-break:after-white-space">Dear Christian, dear all,
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<div>Finnish käydä (käy-/käv-) is a nice example of a retrolative motion verb, used (among other functions) with the location in a static locational case instead of an (in/on)to- or from-case:</div>
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<div>Käv-i-n kaupa-ssa</div>
<div>go-PST-1SG shop-INE</div>
<div>‘I went to the shop (and came back)’</div>
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<div>as opposed to</div>
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<div>Men-i-n kauppa-an</div>
<div>go-PST-1SG shop-ILL</div>
<div>‘I went to the shop (and then, perhaps, elsewhere, or something else happened which is relevant to the story)’</div>
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<div>Tul-i-n kaupa-sta</div>
<div>come-PST-1SG shop-ELA</div>
<div>‘I came from the shop’.</div>
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<div>The Finnish equivalent of ‘fetch’, hakea (hake-) (or also noutaa [nouta-]), also seems to have genuine retrolative semantics:</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Ha-i-n kaupa-sta maito-a.</div>
<div>fetch-PST-1SG shop-ELA milk-PART</div>
<div>‘I brought some milk from the shop (went to the shop and came back with the milk).’</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unfortunately, I don't know of a nice term to describe "retrolative" semantics ("retrolative" itself was unknown to me), and the promising articles about the semantics of motion verbs in Finnish which I was going to refer to are unaccessible at the moment.
(But please check Tuomas Huumo's CG account on Finnish motion verbs: <a href="https://www.utupub.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/156251/The%20grammar%20of%20temporal%20motion.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y" originalsrc="https://www.utupub.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/156251/The%20grammar%20of%20temporal%20motion.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y" shash="EBLpOqfwLuEOZ31fZVjkAe5/SoEPxG0XJNgJyCXbD9+w8QL+6gDvjMo1igLCg07CqSiYKLOMRkBVjNL3VFK/s3Eg6Gq1C0Sjw56lWta/hm1Lmn2F924wjlgWgdfQf0S9zRkziJUA+SGPGQKKWbbWXwKHhYWYO1+/2/pq3fQgONo=">https://www.utupub.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/156251/The%20grammar%20of%20temporal%20motion.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y</a> .)</div>
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<div>Best</div>
<div>jl</div>
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<div>--</div>
<div>Univ.Prof. Dr. Johanna Laakso</div>
<div>Universität Wien, Institut für Europäische und Vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL)</div>
<div>Abteilung Finno-Ugristik</div>
<div>Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7</div>
<div>A-1090 Wien</div>
<div>johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at • http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/</div>
<div>Project ELDIA: http://www.eldia-project.org/ </div>
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<div>Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> kirjoitti 08.08.2024 kello 11.19:</div>
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<div>Dear colleagues,<br>
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I was told occasionally that there is a local relation - let's call it retrolative - consisting of a movement to reference point R and back to the point of departure. In the languages that have it in their grammar, it would be in a paradigm with ablative, allative,
perlative. Unless I am mistaken, English only has it embodied in the meaning of <i>
fetch</i>, and likewise in German <i>holen</i>.<br>
<ol>
<li>Is retrolative the right term, or is the relation known under a different term?</li><li>Please give me a representative example of the type 'Jane went to R round-trip' or 'Jane fetched the axe from the shed' using a retrolative case or adposition or a retrolative formative in some other structural category.</li></ol>
Thanks in advance,<br>
Christian<br>
<div class="x_moz-signature">-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
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