<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Dear Christian, dear all,<div><br></div><div>Finnish käydä (käy-/käv-) is a nice example of a retrolative motion verb, used (among other functions) with the location in a static locational case instead of an (in/on)to- or from-case:</div><div><br></div><div>Käv-i-n kaupa-ssa</div><div>go-PST-1SG shop-INE</div><div>‘I went to the shop (and came back)’</div><div><br></div><div>as opposed to</div><div><br></div><div>Men-i-n kauppa-an</div><div>go-PST-1SG shop-ILL</div><div>‘I went to the shop (and then, perhaps, elsewhere, or something else happened which is relevant to the story)’</div><div><br></div><div>Tul-i-n kaupa-sta</div><div>come-PST-1SG shop-ELA</div><div>‘I came from the shop’.</div><div><br></div><div>The Finnish equivalent of ‘fetch’, hakea (hake-) (or also noutaa [nouta-]), also seems to have genuine retrolative semantics:</div><div><br></div><div>Ha-i-n kaupa-sta maito-a.</div><div>fetch-PST-1SG shop-ELA milk-PART</div><div>‘I brought some milk from the shop (went to the shop and came back with the milk).’</div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately, I don't know of a nice term to describe "retrolative" semantics ("retrolative" itself was unknown to me), and the promising articles about the semantics of motion verbs in Finnish which I was going to refer to are unaccessible at the moment. (But please check Tuomas Huumo's CG account on Finnish motion verbs: <a href="https://www.utupub.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/156251/The%20grammar%20of%20temporal%20motion.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y">https://www.utupub.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/156251/The%20grammar%20of%20temporal%20motion.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y</a> .)</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div>jl</div><div><br></div><div><div>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> kirjoitti 08.08.2024 kello 11.19:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
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Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
I was told occasionally that there is a local relation - let's call
it retrolative - consisting of a movement to reference point R and
back to the point of departure. In the languages that have it in
their grammar, it would be in a paradigm with ablative, allative,
perlative. Unless I am mistaken, English only has it embodied in the
meaning of <i>fetch</i>, and likewise in German <i>holen</i>.<br>
<ol>
<li>Is retrolative the right term, or is the relation known under
a different term?</li>
<li>Please give me a representative example of the type 'Jane went
to R round-trip' or 'Jane fetched the axe from the shed' using a
retrolative case or adposition or a retrolative formative in
some other structural category.</li>
</ol>
Thanks in advance,<br>
Christian<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br><p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
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