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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Christian, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This can also be found in some systems of associated motion, e.g. Kaytetye:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Erlkwe aynewantheyenge ane mamey-eynenge aynewantheyenge enwe-<b>nyeyaytne</b>-nke<br>
old.man 1pl.incl.poss(nom) and mother-coll 1pl.incl.poss(nom) lie-<b>GO&DO&RET-</b>prs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">‘The old men and our mothers used to go and camp out and return’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">(Turpin & Ross 2012 cited in Koch 2021, p. 246)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">See:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Guillaume, A., & Koch, H. (Eds.). (2021).
<i>Associated Motion</i>. De Gruyter. <a href="https://doi.org/10.1515/9783110692099">
https://doi.org/10.1515/9783110692099</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The introduction lists some terms: bidirectional, roundtrip, counterdirectional, returnative, go&do&return<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dr Sasha Wilmoth<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lecturer in Linguistics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">School of Languages and Linguistics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">University of Melbourne</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Alex Francois via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 8 August 2024 at 8:31</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann@uni-erfurt.de><br>
<b>Cc: </b>LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] retrolative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">dear Christian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">As a point of reference, it may be interesting to note that the semantic feature of retrolative would be expressed analytically in languages with (certain types of) verb serialization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">For example, consider the Papuan language Kalam, as described in
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Pawley/publication/300841393_On_the_origins_of_serial_verb_constructions_in_Kalam/links/58d0fd8b4585158476f36662/On-the-origins-of-serial-verb-constructions-in-Kalam.pdf">
Pawley (2009)</a>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Pawley, Andrew. 2009. On the origins of serial verb constructions in Kalam. In Talmy Givón & Masayoshi Shibatani (eds.),
<i>Syntactic complexity: Diachrony, acquisition, neuro-cognition, evolution</i> (Typological Studies in Language v. 85), 119–144. Amsterdam</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">;
Philadelphia: Benjamins.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Pawley cites various examples of
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Pawley/publication/300841393_On_the_origins_of_serial_verb_constructions_in_Kalam/links/58d0fd8b4585158476f36662/On-the-origins-of-serial-verb-constructions-in-Kalam.pdf#page=4">
this type</a>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">(1)
<b>am </b>mab pu-wk d <b>ap</b> agl kn-la-k. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <b>go
</b>wood hit-break.up get <b>come </b>ignite sleep-3PL-PAST </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> “They gathered firewood for the night.”</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"tahoma",sans-serif"> [lit. ‘They went and gathered firewood and brought it, made a fire and slept.']</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The retrolative semantic component is here encoded analytically, using distinct (serialized) verbs “go... get...
<u>come</u>...”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Pawley calls such event-types “collecting expeditions”, and shows that the serial pattern is grammaticalized, i.e. linguistically entrenched in the phraseological / formulaic
routines of Kalam. <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Pawley/publication/300841393_On_the_origins_of_serial_verb_constructions_in_Kalam/links/58d0fd8b4585158476f36662/On-the-origins-of-serial-verb-constructions-in-Kalam.pdf#page=18">
On p.135</a> he provides the recipe for the pattern:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><img border="0" width="472" height="250" style="width:4.9166in;height:2.6041in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:ii_lzl40ncc0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Similar analytic strategies for the retrolative meaning can be found in other serializing languages, at least in those where the sequence of clauses iconically reflects a sequence
of (sub)events. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">[NB: In another type of serializing languages, all verbs must reflect simultaneous facets of a single event; they would not work in the same way.]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Think also of constructions in -</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic"">て来る</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <i>-te
kuru </i></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">[-Converb come] </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">in colloquial Japanese:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">(2) </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic"">買い物に行って<b>来</b>るよ。</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">
<i>Kaimono=ni it-te ku-ru yo.</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> shopping=OBL go-CVB <b>come</b>-Npst PTC</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> “I'm going grocery-shopping.” [lit. I'll go shopping
<u>and come</u>.]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Alex</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<hr size="1" width="70" style="width:52.5pt" noshade="" style="color:black" align="left">
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#45818E">Alex François</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none">LaTTiCe</span></a> — <a href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC;text-decoration:none">CNRS–</span></a><a href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC;text-decoration:none">ENS</span></a>–<a href="https://www.psl.eu/en" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC;text-decoration:none">PSL</span></a>–<a href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC;text-decoration:none">Sorbonne
nouvelle</span></a><br>
<a href="https://researchprofiles.anu.edu.au/en/persons/alex-francois" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3366CC;text-decoration:none">Australian National University</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3366CC;text-decoration:none">Personal
homepage</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt">_________________________________________</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <strong><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp</span></strong> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 10:19<br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] retrolative<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
I was told occasionally that there is a local relation - let's call it retrolative - consisting of a movement to reference point R and back to the point of departure. In the languages that have it in their grammar, it would be in a paradigm with ablative, allative,
perlative. Unless I am mistaken, English only has it embodied in the meaning of <i>
fetch</i>, and likewise in German <i>holen</i>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt">Is retrolative the right term, or is the relation known under a different term?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt">Please give me a representative example of the type 'Jane went to R round-trip' or 'Jane fetched the axe from the shed' using a retrolative case or adposition or a retrolative formative in some other structural category.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks in advance,<br>
Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Tel.:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">+49/361/2113417<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">E-Post:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Web:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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