<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir="ltr">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr">
<p>German has <i>Un-tiefe</i>, which essentially means the same as <i>Tiefe</i> 'depth'. Or
<i>Un-menge</i>, largely synonymous with <i>Menge</i> 'mass, crowd, great amount.' These seem perfectly analogous to
<i>valuable-invaluable</i>.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I'm sure there's more, but I don't know if that prefix is cognate with the negator found in, for instance,
<i>Un-freiheit</i> 'unfreedom.' So, there are probably complications involved if one were to analyze that more seriously.</p>
<br>
Best,</div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr">
<br>
</div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;" dir="ltr">
Tim<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Von:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> im Auftrag von ROBERT Stephane via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 16. August 2024 11:48<br>
<b>An:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Expletive derivational negation</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;">
<p>Dear Joe, <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p></p>
<div>Personally, I do not regard these uses of lexical negation as expletive but rather as contributing a construction with a high-degree value that can be paraphrased as follows: 'this object is (valuable) to a degree that I (speaker) cannot (even) express',
or '<span><b>no</b> matter how hard I try to estimate how much X is P, I<b> can't</b> express it'
<span>(P for predicate)</span>.</span></div>
<div><br>
Note that in the examples I can analyse (Germanic, English and also French '<i>in-estim-able</i>'), this lexical negation is combined with a suffix (cf. Germ. -<i>bar</i>, Eng. < Fr. -<i>able</i>) which contributes to the meaning of the construction because
it expresses evaluation about capacity ‘which can be P’ .<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best<br>
<br>
</div>
<font size="2">Stéphane ROBERT</font>
<p></p>
<p><font size="2"><a href="https://llacan.cnrs.fr" class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPlnk617633" previewremoved="true">https://llacan.cnrs.fr</a><br>
</font></p>
<div id="Signature">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:10pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif,"EmojiFont","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de Hannu Tommola via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 16 août 2024 11:03<br>
<b>À :</b> <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>; Pun Ho Lui<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Expletive derivational negation</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi,</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
there seems to be a tendency to lexicalize 'invaluable' in an intensifying non-negative meaning (cf. Russian
<i>bes-cennyj</i> 'invaluable, priceless', which has an obsolete meaning 'valueless' =
<i>ne-cennyj</i>). This tendency goes back to the verb 'value' that has, in various languages, both the meanings 1) 'estimate', 2) 'regard/estimate highly'. Cf. also German
<i>un-schätzbar</i> 'invaluable' < <i>schätzen</i> 1. 'to regard highly, respect', 2. 'value, estimate'; the same applies to Swedish
<i>o-skattbar</i> < <i>(upp)skatta</i>.</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best wishes,</div>
<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hannu Tommola</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> käyttäjän Pun Ho Lui via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org> puolesta<br>
<b>Lähetetty:</b> perjantai 16. elokuuta 2024 3.22<br>
<b>Vastaanottaja:</b> <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Aihe:</b> [Lingtyp] Expletive derivational negation</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="line-break:after-white-space">Dear linguists,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am recently interested in lexical items that consist of a derivational negative affix which may not contribute a negative meaning (i.e. being expletive). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For instance, <i>in-valuable</i> ~ <i>valuable</i>. Other possible examples would be 無價 ‘invaluable [lit. NEG value’ in Mandarin, and
<i>sewashi-nai</i> ‘restless’ ~ <i>sewashii</i> ‘busy’ in Japanese.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have looked into a number of (decent) grammar descriptions but have no luck.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am wondering if you know of any language with similar items.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Warmest,</div>
<div>Pun Ho Lui Joe</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>