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Hi Rainer, </div>
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To have semantics without reference to meaning, i.e. based only on form, we need to establish the stage at which form and meaning are in a one-to-one relationship because at this stage it does not matter whether we work with meaning or with form. Since working
with meaning is more difficult to control than working with form, ChatGPT works with form. As we know from linguistics, we disambiguate through addition of form, e.g.
<i>cut </i>is ambiguous between a noun and a verb, but by saying <i>a cut </i>and
<i>to cut, </i>we immediately solve the problem. The same strategy is used in ChatGPT, only ChatGPT works with very long sequences of forms (tokens or subword units; ChatGPT uses subword tokenization). Since a machine does not literally need to understand language
(cf. image recognition: a computer does not really see), for language processing it is enough if the computer "understands" and produces existing long sequences of forms, which is easy to achieve by observing co-occurrences of forms statistically. This is
how ChatGPT "understands" and generates long sequences of forms which, though produced without reference to meaning, appear meaningful text for us. </div>
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Is this how a human being processes language? I do not know – there is no research on this issue, as far as I know. But I could imagine that a human being memorizes long sequences of forms, which is the parallel to what is going on in ChatGPT. </div>
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Two of the computer scientists behind ChatGPT (Ilya Sutskever and Dario Amodei) have confessed many times that they do not know why their algorithms work for language processing. They seem to believe that this is because of the large amount of data used and
therefore they regularly enlarge the amount of the data. In other words, the above is my personal view on why ChatGPT can generate language. And I think that linguists can contribute to LLMs optimization by helping computer scientists establish the optimal
length of the sequence necessary for language generation that is exclusively form-based. </div>
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Please do not hesitate to respond to this message if any questions arise. </div>
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Greetings from Vienna, </div>
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<i>Gauss:AI</i></div>
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<u><a href="https://sites.google.com/view/stelamanova/gaussai?authuser=0" id="OWAf128c67a-8e3e-a50f-e31e-69d8d0ff020b" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: blue; margin: 0px;">https://sites.google.com/view/stelamanova/gaussai</a></u></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Rainer Feer <rainer_feer@sil.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2024 11:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> manova.stela@gmail.com <manova.stela@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG: [Lingtyp] Expletive derivational negation (revisited)</span>
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<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Dear Stela,</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">I would be thrilled hearing your explanation how one can generate language without considering semantics. That didn’t
even occur to me. Hope others request that as well :)</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Best wishes</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Rainer</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>Von:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Stela Manova via Lingtyp<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 27. August 2024 16:02<br>
<b>An:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org; Salminen, Jutta <jutta.salminen@uni-greifswald.de><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Expletive derivational negation (revisited)</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">Dear lingtyp readers,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">Now that the thread “Expletive derivational negation” has been continued, I am adding a few sentences from the perspective of a Large Language Model such as ChatGPT. </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">ChatGPT operates with subword units (NOT with WORDS as many linguists seem to believe). Expletive morphemes such as those discussed in this thread are not an issue because ChatGPT does not associate
morphemes (subword units) with meaning (which is similar to how a-morphous, word-based and paradigm-based morphology treat morphemes in linguistic theory: semantics is assigned at the level of the word, morphemes are just markings without meaning). If lingtyp
readers are interested in how ChatGPT, which does not consider semantics at all, produces meaningful language, I can post an explanation.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">Now, since ChatGPT can understand and generate a significant number of languages, it seems that the only way to achieve a universal linguistic analysis (= understanding and generation of all languages)
is by treating morphemes as phonemes, i.e. as building blocks that create meaning but do not have semantics of their own.</span></p>
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<p style="text-align: justify; margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">I also think that we need the term ‘subword unit’ in linguistics, to refer to units without meaning as well as to units which, for some reason, cannot be clearly related to (a specific) meaning, see
about <i>-er</i> below. I am against the use of 'morphome' for that purpose because 'morphome' has been linked to inflectional morphology and seems to require a root or a stem to be involved. ‘Morpheme’ will remain for the designation of the morphological
unit that relates meaning and form. The adoption of 'subword unit' will help us avoid misleading definitions such as the following ones from Haspelmath & Sims (2010),
<i>Understanding Morphology</i>:</span></p>
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<li style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><i>morpheme</i></b>: the smallest meaningful part of a linguistic expression that can be identified by segmentation; a frequently occurring subtype of morphological pattern. (p. 335)</span></li><li style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><i>exponent</i></b>: when a morphological pattern (e.g. -<i>ed</i>) expresses an inflectional feature value (e.g. past tense), it is the
<i>exponent </i>of that feature value. (p. 328)</span></li></ul>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">In relation to these definitions, the following questions arise: What is a "subtype of morphological pattern" + "frequently
occurring"? Does a morpheme have a specific meaning, or can it be just a pattern, see about
<i>-er </i>below? What is the difference between 'morpheme' and 'exponent'? Can derivational morphemes have exponents?</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">From psycholinguistics, we know that for the human brain
<i>work</i> -- <i>work-er </i>and <i>corn</i> -- <i>corn-er</i> are morphologically related, though
<i>corner</i> is not derived from <i>corn</i>. Then, if morphology is pattern-based, as Haspelmath and Sims seem to claim and psycholinguistics to evidence, we should add to this pattern
<i>clean</i> -- <i>clean-er</i>, too. I therefore suggest pieces of structure such as
<i>-er</i> to be called ‘subword units’.</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0cm; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;">Greetings from Vienna, </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: black;"><i>Gauss:AI</i></span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://sites.google.com/view/stelamanova/gaussai?authuser=0" id="OWA116c87b4-0b88-4987-34c4-b6eb84993e85" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">https://sites.google.com/view/stelamanova/gaussai</a></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" id="OWA11689759-4cfb-8096-fa2d-3dc0048a0828" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;">>
on behalf of Salminen, Jutta via Lingtyp <</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" id="OWAbe3cbdbe-d621-3456-f164-33ed82c1eb19" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 26, 2024 2:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" id="OWA28ec19dc-9f37-89c2-a7f3-beeb5bca1d2d" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> <</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" id="OWA07f6943e-51ef-2399-44d3-80955349474b" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lingtyp] Expletive derivational negation (revisited)</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">Dear all (who recently discussed the phenomenon of derivational expletive negation),</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">I was informed about this conversation last week and will now add my contribution to it with a little delay. I couldn’t respond directly to the thread,
since I just joined the list, but I shortly cite here the relevant questions and conclusions that I will comment from my perspective:</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black;">Bastian Persohn (<i>Fri Aug 16 11:55)
</i>“– – Their closest relatives are probably found in instances like Un-fall ‚accident‘ < Fall ‚case‘, i.e. ‚the undesirable case‘ or Un-tier ‚monster‘, lit ‚un-animal‘. What all these have in common is a negative element, albeit in the subjective rather than
the material domain.”</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">Tim Zingler (<i>Fri Aug 16 12:15</i>): „I like the idea that the function has shifted as part of a subjectification (?) process. Does that happen with
negators cross-linguistically?”</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">My case is not literally parallel to the lexical negators and lexemes discussed in the thread so far, but there are similarities on the general level. </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">In my dissertation (</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: blue; background-color: white;"><u><a href="https://helda.helsinki.fi/items/013d254d-e401-4ffe-ae09-372e60d6ffb6" id="OWA6a5255b5-e329-337b-d5af-8ada53f47971" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Salminen
2020</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">), I studied the Finnish verb
<i>epäillä</i> ‘doubt; suspect, suppose,’ which – as the translations reveal – can have basically two opposite meanings ‘to think that something is, or is not the case.’ But besides the material negation or the lack of it (to apply the term from B. Persohn),
undesirability plays a key role in motivating the connection and the diachronic shift from the negation-inclining to the affirmation-inclining meaning of this verb: very often
<i>epäillä </i>is used to either doubt something desirable or suspect something undesirable, which both share the tone of undesirability. (I keep the description of the variation here very short and simplified; it can be read in English in a nutshell in my
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: blue; background-color: white;"><u><a href="https://www.jbe-platform.com/content/journals/10.1075/fol.15030.sal" id="OWAdeb449f6-a2ca-53dc-a48e-a62fc05a3c73" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">2018
paper</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">, and in more detail in Finnish in other parts of my dissertation.)<br>
What is perhaps most interesting for the current discussion, is the fact that the verb
<i>epä-illä </i>is derived from a negator: <i>epä </i>is a present participial form of the Finnish negative auxiliary, historically also used as a 3SG form of it (cf.
<i>ei</i>). (The same morpheme also functions as a prefix, e. g. <i>epämukava </i>
‘unpleasant,’ but in the verb <i>epäillä </i>functions<i> </i>as a derivational base. The possible chain of derivation is:
<i>epä > evätä </i>‘refuse, decline’ > <i>epäillä </i>(frequentative).) </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">Since, a notable part of this verb’s use in present day Finnish lacks the interpretation of material negation and denotes “only” undesirability or some
other aspect of evaluative negativity, it can be seen as one (complex) example of a diachronic change, where a negator developed more subjective meaning(s) of negativity (instead or besides the negation proper). </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">Lastly, all the mentioned meanings are still available for
<i>epäillä, </i>and they are dependent on the clausal, sentential and wider context of the verb.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">Best regards,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; background-color: white;">Jutta</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black;">_________________<br>
Dr. Jutta Salminen<br>
Postdoktorand / postdoc-tutkija, FT<br>
Lektorin für Finnisch / suomen lehtori<br>
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Institut für Fennistik und Skandinavistik<br>
Ernst-Lohmeyer-Platz 3<br>
17489 Greifswald<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:jutta.salminen@uni-greifswald.de" id="OWAbe7a2ec6-66a9-deca-25ef-b911f126aa3a" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">jutta.salminen@uni-greifswald.de</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: black;"><br>
Tel.: +49 (0)3834 420 3601<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="http://www.uni-greifswald.de/fennistik" id="OWAf65d3694-eb32-23b5-8d36-0462238c2245" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">www.uni-greifswald.de/fennistik</a></u></span></p>
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