<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear David,</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">In the case of
Mandarin <i>lái</i>, a joint activity is
common but is not a necessary condition for this use. In the second example I
used, it can be uttered to a single addressee (and the singing action, if
realized, will then be performed by one person, i.e. the addressee alone). This
use of <i>lái</i> to serve some vocative
function is by no means fully grammaticalized in Mandarin, and certainly it is
not obligatory to use <i>lái</i> at the beginning of an utterance when the need
for drawing the addressee’s attention arises. Related to this, <i>lái</i> also cannot be used in your example
regarding raining. </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">With respect to ‘come’
vs. ‘come here’, it might be worth considering the fact that a request of “Come
here” will be simply and naturally rendered as </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">过来</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Guòlái</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> or </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来 </span><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Lái</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> (plus an
accompanying gesture) rather than as </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">过来这儿 </span><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Guòlái</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <i>zhèr</i> or </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来这儿 </span><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Lái zhèr</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> in Mandarin, in
which </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">这儿 </span><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">zhèr</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> means ‘here’. </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best regards,</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Chao</span></p><p class="gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 8:57 AM David Gil <<a href="mailto:dapiiiiit@gmail.com">dapiiiiit@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Chao,</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for this very interesting example. But I would be interested to know whether Mandarin <i>lái</i>
can also be used to attract the interlocutor's attention in cases not
involving the proposal of a subsequent joint activity. For example, I wonder whether it can be used in the sentence "<i>Lái</i> it is raining".</div><div><br></div><div>(In Hebrew, simple "come" cannot be used non-literally in such a context, whereas "come here" can.)<br><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div><br></div><div>David<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 3:55 PM Chao Li <<a href="mailto:chao.li@aya.yale.edu" target="_blank">chao.li@aya.yale.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear David,</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thank you for your
observation of this interesting phenomenon. I believe that Mandarin </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">lái (‘to come’
when used as a verb) is related to what you requested. (Particularly when the
speaker intends to invite the addressee(s) to jointly participate in the action
expressed by the verb in the remaining part of the utterance), he or she, to draw
the addressee(s)’ attention, may use </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> or </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来来来 </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">at the beginning
of a Chinese utterance (two </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">’s
in a row for this use appear to be less common; others may correct me if my intuition
is wrong here). I didn’t gloss </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">in the following examples, but its vocative function
appears to be clear. </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(1) </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来，再唱一遍。</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> Lái, zài
chàng yí biàn. </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> again sing one time</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0cm 27pt;text-align:justify;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">‘Hey, let’s sing
it one more time!’ or ‘Hey, please sing it one more time.’ (depending on the context)</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(2) </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来，唱一遍给我们听听。</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> Lái, chàng
yí biàn
gěi wǒmen
tīngtīng. </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> sing one time for us listen</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> ‘Hey, please sing it for us.’</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(3) </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来来来，咱们好好看看。</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> Lái lái lái, zánmen hǎohǎo kànkàn. </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> we carefully watch/examine/study</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> ‘Hey, let’s examine it carefully!’</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(4) </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:DengXian">来来来，再敬你一杯</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">!</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> Lái lái lái, zài jìng nǐ
yì
bēi!</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> again respectfully.offer you one cup</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> ‘Hey, another toast to you!’ </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best regards,</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Chao</span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 4:20 PM David Gil via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">I am interested in an apparent path of grammaticalization in which an
expression meaning "come here" is reinterpreted as an exclamation whose
effect seems to be to draw the interlocutor's attention to the speaker.<span> </span>I am familiar with two such cases and would like
to know if any of you happen to be familiar with others.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">The first is from Hebrew, in which <i>bo hena</i> (come.IMP.2SGM
here), reduced to <i>boena</i>, may be used to begin an utterance, with an
effect rather like English <i>hey</i>, as in<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">Boena yored gešem<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">BOENA descend.PRS.SGM rain<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">'Hey it's raining'<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">The reduced nature of the form is often reflected by its orthographic
representation as a single word: </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">בוא הנה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="EN-US"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> > </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">בואנה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="EN-US"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">The second case is from the home sign used by a single deaf child and his
hearing friends in Sorong, on the western tip of New Guinea.<span> </span>The signers make use of a "come here"
gesture that is widespread in many parts of the world, in which the hand is
extended forward with the palm facing downward, and then makes one or more </span><span lang="EN-US">sweeping </span><span lang="EN-US">downward motions, iconically suggesting movement from the interlocutor to the
signer.<span> </span>However, in this usage, the same
gesture is used not to mean "come here", but rather to attract the
interlocutor's attention, as a prelude to a further signed message.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">I would appreciate any other examples you might be familiar with of similar
paths of grammaticalization derived from "come here", in either
spoken or signed language.<span> </span>For what it's
worth, Heine and Kuteva's (2002) <i>World Lexicon of Grammaticalization</i>
provides examples of COME > HORTATIVE grammaticalization, which is perhaps
in the same ballpark, but not quite the same thing.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">David<span></span></span></p>
<br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72">David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:dapiiiiit@gmail.com" target="_blank">dapiiiiit@gmail.com</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302</pre>
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</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72">David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:dapiiiiit@gmail.com" target="_blank">dapiiiiit@gmail.com</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302</pre>
<br></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>