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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Dear all,</font></div>
<p>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I admit that the link with
Jussi's note and other contributions is somewhat tenuous, but
there is the perennial
controversy regarding the etymology of the ethnonym ‘Somali’. It
has been
hypothesized that it might be none other than the two-word
command <i>soo </i>(hither)
+ <i>maal</i> (milk), which translates as ‘Go milk (the cow)!’.
According to Hersi
(1977: 26-7), this is one of five “popular explanations”. While
linguistically he
views all of them as being of “dubious authenticity, as they are
nothing more
than the fancies of folk literature and philological
speculations”, Hersi observes
that <i>soo maal</i> are “the most likely words a foreigner
would hear as his
Somali host gave orders for the preparation of the guest’s
meal”. Incidentally,
Hersi mistakenly glosses <i>soo</i> go’. The preverbal clitic <i>soo</i>
is
actually a ventive marker, which in <i>soo maal! </i>encodes
subsequent associated
motion. In this instance, <i>soo </i>refers specifically to
the return segment of
a round trip: ‘Milk <b>and come</b> (back)!’ (Encoding the
return segment
rather than the outbound segment, as in English or French, is
not an uncommon
strategy crosslinguistically: it’s attested for example in
Japanese and in
Indo-Aryan languages such as Marathi). To come back to the
etymological
controversy, Hersi refers to Lewis (1955: 14), who does mention
<i>soo maal</i>
as one of the competing hypotheses. So does, more recently,
Abdillahi Farah (2020:
61), who notes that the topic is discussed in Mansuur (2016:
130). These are
only a few references, I’m sure there are lots more.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Philippe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Philippe Bourdin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">York U., Toronto (em.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Abdillahi Farah, Hawa. 2020.
Étude
linguistique et sociolinguistique de la variété du somali parlée
par les jeunes
Djiboutiens. Doctoral dissertation, Université d’Aix-Marseille.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hersi, Ali Abdirahman. 1977.
The Arab
factor in Somali history: The origins and the development of
Arab enterprise
and cultural influences in the Somali peninsula. PhD
dissertation, U.C.L.A.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Lewis, I.M. 1955. <i>Peoples
of the Horn of
Africa: Somali, Afar and Saho</i>. London: International
African Institute. (1994 ed. available at </span><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-CA">ArcAdiA Archivio Aperto di
Ateneo)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-CA">Mansuur,
Cabdalla
Cumar. 2016. <i>Taarikhda Afka iyo Bulshada Soomaaliyeed </i>[‘History
of the Somali
Language and Society’], 2<sup>nd</sup> ed. Leicester: Loh Press.</span></p>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-09-02 23:32, Jussi Ylikoski via
Lingtyp wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:e41700fae3a94e6796ee79b7a37281c8@utu.fi">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>At the risk of being mislead by a
legend or a hoax, I'd like to mention the story about
English
<i>come here</i> resulting in the Rotuman (Austronesian) <i>kamia</i>
for 'dog'. If this is true, this would, in a way, be
something where "an expression meaning "come here" is
reinterpreted as an exclamation whose effect seems to be
to draw the interlocutor's attention to the speaker", as
formulated by David in his original query.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Jussi</span></p>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><b>Frá:</b> Nina Dobrushina
via Lingtyp <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> mánudagur, 2. september 2024 23:21<br>
<b>Til:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chao.li@aya.yale.edu">chao.li@aya.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Afrit:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
<b>Efni:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] query: "come here" > "hey"
grammaticalization in spoken and sign language
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><span id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-779bad22-7fff-551c-cffc-08ab8f658b55">
<p dir="ltr"><span>Dear David,</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"><span><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"><span>In the languages of Daghestan, the
imperative of the verb 'to come' often also means
'let's go' and in some languages it is also used as
a particle in a hortative construction (come.IMP
drink = ‘let’s drink’). In Rutul, I tested such
constructions by translating the sentence “let’s not
go there’ - come.IMP go.NEG. Unfortunately, I don't
know if these words are used to attract attention. </span></p>
<p dir="ltr"><span><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"><span>Here, for example, is a description
of such usage in Mehweb - <a href="https://langsci-press.org/catalog/view/225/1597/1658-1" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://langsci-press.org/catalog/view/225/1597/1658-1</a>,
and here, briefly, in Rutul -
</span><a href="https://lingconlab.github.io/rutul_dialectology/179_Hortative_marking.html" moz-do-not-send="true"><span>https://lingconlab.github.io/rutul_dialectology/179_Hortative_marking.html</span></a></p>
<p dir="ltr"><a href="https://lingconlab.github.io/rutul_dialectology/178_Hortative_%E2%80%98Let%E2%80%99s_go!%E2%80%99.html" moz-do-not-send="true"><span>https://lingconlab.github.io/rutul_dialectology/178_Hortative_%E2%80%98Let%E2%80%99s_go!%E2%80%99.html</span></a></p>
<p dir="ltr"><span> In addition, Timur Maysak
</span><a href="https://www.academia.edu/3007153/%D0%A2%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%81_%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8_%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B8_%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_2002_" moz-do-not-send="true"><span>wrote</span></a><span>
about hortative usages of 'come', but only in
Russian, as far as I know.</span></p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr"><span>Best,</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"><span>Nina</span></p>
</span><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nina Dobrushina</div>
<div><b><i>I condemn the aggression in Ukraine</i></b></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 2 sept. 2024
à 14:55, Chao Li via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>
<span>Dear David,</span></p>
<p>
<span> </span></p>
<p>
<span>Thank you for your observation of this
interesting phenomenon. I believe that Mandarin
</span><span lang="ZH-CN">来</span><span lang="ZH-CN">
</span><span>lái (‘to come’ when used as a verb)
is related to what you requested. (Particularly
when the speaker intends to invite the
addressee(s) to jointly participate in the
action expressed by the verb in the remaining
part of the utterance), he or she, to draw the
addressee(s)’ attention, may use </span><span lang="ZH-CN">来</span><span> or
</span><span lang="ZH-CN">来来来 </span><span>at the
beginning of a Chinese utterance (two
</span><span lang="ZH-CN">来</span><span>’s in a
row for this use appear to be less common;
others may correct me if my intuition is wrong
here). I didn’t gloss </span><span lang="ZH-CN">来</span><span lang="ZH-CN">
</span><span>in the following examples, but its
vocative function appears to be clear.
</span></p>
<p>
<span> </span></p>
<p>
<span>(1) </span><span lang="ZH-CN">来，再唱一遍。</span><span></span></p>
<p>
<span> Lái, zài chàng yí
biàn.
</span></p>
<p>
<span> again sing one
time</span></p>
<p>
<span>‘Hey, let’s sing it one more time!’ or ‘Hey,
please sing it one more time.’ (depending on the
context)</span></p>
<p>
<span>
</span></p>
<p>
<span>(2) </span><span lang="ZH-CN">来，唱一遍给我们听听。</span><span></span></p>
<p>
<span> Lái, chàng yí biàn gěi
wǒmen tīngtīng.
</span></p>
<p>
<span> sing one time
for us listen</span></p>
<p>
<span> ‘Hey, please sing it for us.’</span></p>
<p>
<span> </span></p>
<p>
<span>(3) </span><span lang="ZH-CN">来来来，咱们好好看看。</span><span></span></p>
<p>
<span> Lái lái lái, zánmen hǎohǎo
kànkàn.
</span></p>
<p>
<span> we
carefully watch/examine/study</span></p>
<p>
<span> ‘Hey, let’s examine it carefully!’</span></p>
<p>
<span> </span></p>
<p>
<span>(4) </span><span lang="ZH-CN">来来来，再敬你一杯</span><span>!</span></p>
<p>
<span> Lái lái lái, zài jìng
nǐ yì bēi!</span></p>
<p>
<span> again
respectfully.offer you one cup</span></p>
<p>
<span> ‘Hey, another toast to you!’
</span></p>
<p>
<span> </span></p>
<p>
<span>Best regards,</span></p>
<p>
<span>Chao</span></p>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 31,
2024 at 4:20 PM David Gil via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">I am interested in an
apparent path of grammaticalization in which
an expression meaning "come here" is
reinterpreted as an exclamation whose effect
seems to be to draw the interlocutor's
attention to the speaker.<span>
</span>I am familiar with two such cases and
would like to know if any of you happen to
be familiar with others.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">The first is from Hebrew,
in which <i>bo hena</i> (come.IMP.2SGM
here), reduced to
<i>boena</i>, may be used to begin an
utterance, with an effect rather like
English
<i>hey</i>, as in<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Boena yored gešem<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">BOENA descend.PRS.SGM rain<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">'Hey it's raining'<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">The reduced nature of the
form is often reflected by its orthographic
representation as a single word:
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בוא הנה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="EN-US"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> >
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בואנה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="EN-US"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">The second case is from the
home sign used by a single deaf child and
his hearing friends in Sorong, on the
western tip of New Guinea.<span>
</span>The signers make use of a "come here"
gesture that is widespread in many parts of
the world, in which the hand is extended
forward with the palm facing downward, and
then makes one or more
</span><span lang="EN-US">sweeping </span><span lang="EN-US">downward motions, iconically
suggesting movement from the interlocutor to
the signer.<span>
</span>However, in this usage, the same
gesture is used not to mean "come here", but
rather to attract the interlocutor's
attention, as a prelude to a further signed
message.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">I would appreciate any
other examples you might be familiar with of
similar paths of grammaticalization derived
from "come here", in either spoken or signed
language.<span>
</span>For what it's worth, Heine and
Kuteva's (2002) <i>World Lexicon of
Grammaticalization</i> provides examples
of COME > HORTATIVE grammaticalization,
which is perhaps in the same ballpark, but
not quite the same thing.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">Thanks,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US">David<span></span></span></p>
<br>
<br>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<pre cols="72">David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:dapiiiiit@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dapiiiiit@gmail.com</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302</pre>
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