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Dear Sergey, dear all,</div>
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the fact that certain tense-aspect grams license a present time interpretation with states and a non-present (past or future) interpretation with events is not uncommon across languages. This phenomenon has sometimes been called the
<i>present perfective paradox</i> [PPP] (Malchukov 2009; De Wit 2017), based on the assumption that such tense-aspect grams come with perfective semantics. As it happens, I am conducting a cross-linguistic study on the PPP for my dissertation.</div>
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Crucially, I acknowledge that Sergey was talking about situations ongoing at <u>reference time</u> instead of situations ongoing at
<u>speech time</u>, i.e., about relative rather than absolute time reference. I still think the Modern Western Aramaic pattern is so strikingly similar to the things that I have been investigating that I decided to gloss over this (admittedly, non-trivial)
difference in the remainder of this message. I can see that this might not have been appropriate, but I hope that some of the things written below could still be relevant.</div>
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Examples for other gram types that manifest the PPP are <i>iamitive </i>particles, which are quite widespread in Southeast Asia (e.g., Olsson 2013), and the so-called
<i>factative</i> verb forms that can be found in many Bantu languages (e.g., Welmers 1973). I believe the isiXhosa present tense that Stefan Savić described earlier in this thread could be considered to be a
<i>factative</i> tense-aspect form as well.</div>
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For some grams, the semantic distinction ‘triggering’ the PPP is (a)telicity instead of (non-) stativity, such that both states and atelic events receive a present-time interpretation, while telic events receive a non-present (mostly past) interpretation. In
Modern Western Aramaic, however, the situation appears to be reversed: telic intransitive events seem to pattern with states, setting them apart from other event verbs. I find this surprising for two reasons: 1. the opposition between (necessarily
<u>atelic</u>) states and <u>telic</u> events vs. <u>atelic</u> events, and 2. the fact that valency seems to play a crucial role here. So far, I haven’t found languages where (in)transitivity on top of actionality influences the PPP. In summary, I cannot explain
the pattern that you found, Sergey, but I can tell you that it looks like a unique subtype of an otherwise relatively common phenomenon. I hope this helps a bit. </div>
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…obviously, this is all based on the assumption that I understood your observations correctly, so please let me know if I got anything wrong. In particular, I would like to point out that your examples for intransitive telic verbs that do not pattern with
states (“fall”, “pounce” and “die”) could all be characterized as punctual – while all examples for verbs that are subject to the PPP, in my words, are clearly durative or could at least be conceptualized as durative situations. This might explain their different
behaviour. So, the crucial verb class we are dealing with here seems to be <u>intransitive motion accomplishments.
</u>Would you agree? And, going a step further, would you say the following statement is an accurate description of the phenomenon you found in Modern Western Aramaic (yet again, glossing over the difference between relative and absolute time reference):</div>
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<i>The denominal perfective verb form licenses present-time reference with states and intransitive motion accomplishments, but licenses past-time reference with all other non-stative verbs (irrespective of valency, telicity, durativity etc.).</i></div>
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…?</div>
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Many thanks for bringing this topic to my attention. Let me know if you would like to have any additional information on the PPP.</div>
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Best wishes,</div>
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Tom Koss (PhD student at University of Antwerp)</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Stefan Savić via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 3, 2024 12:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark Donohue <mhdonohue@gmail.com>; Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Motion verbs and actionality classes</font>
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<div dir="auto">Hello, </div>
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<div dir="auto">In isiXhosa there are quite a few verbs for which the (recent) past marker refers to the moment of speech (sometimes referred to as 'inchoative' verbs in three literature), albeit I don't remember motion verbs per se. These include: </div>
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<div dir="auto">- ukubamba 'catch'</div>
<div dir="auto">- ukuphatha 'hold, carry'</div>
<div dir="auto">- lala 'sleep'</div>
<div dir="auto">- hlala 'sit'</div>
<div dir="auto">- ukulamba 'get hungry' </div>
<div dir="auto">- ukulahleka 'get lost'</div>
<div dir="auto">- ukufaneleka 'be suitable' </div>
<div dir="auto">- ukulunga 'be good'</div>
<div dir="auto">- phila 'be well/fine'</div>
<div dir="auto">- ukuqina 'become firm/hard'</div>
<div dir="auto">- ukubukela 'watch'</div>
<div dir="auto">- ukumamela 'listen' </div>
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<div dir="auto">The list of such verbs is, of course, much longer. Uku- is the infinitive augment + prefix. </div>
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<div dir="auto">In the present tense these verbs often refer to the onset of the activity/position, e.g. in present habituals. Some of these verbs can also be used as non-inchoative verbs, e.g. ukuhlala with the present tense means to 'reside, live', whereas
ukuphila with the same tense means 'to live, be alive'.</div>
<div dir="auto">As a non-inchoative verb, ukuhamba normally means 'walk, travel', but it can also denote the act of leaving ("onset" of walking, travelling) but unlike the inchoative verbs from the list above the activity of walking/travelling is not restricted
to the present tense when used with the recent past (it can also refer to an event of walking/travelling entirely located in the past).</div>
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<div dir="auto">Best, </div>
<div dir="auto">Stefan</div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Mark Donohue via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 3, 2024 2:50:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Motion verbs and actionality classes</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi,
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<div>Back in 1973 Andy Pawley noted the odd behaviour of directed motion verbs in Oceanic, observing that they can simultaneously be viewed as agentive (the moving person initiates the action) and patientive (the moving person undergoes a change of location).
For this reason, they can be interpreted differently by different languages, including their behaviour with respect to aspectual classes, or what have you.</div>
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<div>-Mark</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_gmail_attr">On Tue, 3 Sept 2024 at 06:13, Sergey Loesov via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:107%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear colleagues,
</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:107%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">In Modern Western Aramaic, an endangered language spoken in Syrian Qalamoun mountains, verbs of telic intransitive motion (those for ‘enter’, ‘go out of/leave’, ‘go up/ascend’,
‘go down/descend’, ‘go past’ [German ‘vorbeigehen]’) use their denominal Resultative/Perfective form to encode the respective events
<b>in progress</b> at the reference time, quite like static verbs of perception (‘see’, ‘hear’) or body posture (‘lie’, ‘stand’, ‘sit’). Various other dynamic intransitives (e.g., the verbs for ‘fall’ or ‘pounce’, and also ‘die’) use, quite expectedly, the
denominal Imperfective for progressive situations at the reference time, while their Perfective encodes Resultative, Perfect, (past time) Evidential, etc. </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:107%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:107%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I observe a similar picture in Levantine Arabic dialects, in particular the Damascene. I wonder what is so special about basic verbs of intransitive telic motion that they behave
like statives? Have you ever seen something similar?</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:107%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thank you very much,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:107%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Sergey</span></p>
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