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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dan, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">What a nice analysis!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Zygmunt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Dan I Slobin via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif;color:black">양재영</span><span style="color:black"> <tastymango@snu.ac.kr><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Epps, Patience L <pattieepps@austin.utexas.edu>, lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Query: 'Deceased referent' markers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">[External email - use caution]<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">In English we have a grammatical usage that seems to be the flip side of a “deceased referent marker.” Perhaps it can be called “a living individual referent marker.” As Jim McCawley pointed out about fifty
years, with regard to uses of the English Present Perfect, one cannot say “Albert Einstein has lived in Princeton” because Einstein is dead. This is due to the restriction of the Pres Perf “to indicate that a state of affairs prevailed throughout some interval
stretching from the past into the present.” </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">This usage seems to be evident to English-speaking children. When my son was eight I asked him if you could say, “Abraham Lincoln has lived in the White House.” He immediately said “no.” I asked him why not
and he answered: “Abraham Lincoln is dead.” We had never discussed this usage and I was surprised that he was aware of it.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">In 2017 Trump made a stir by saying: “Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I notice.” Douglass, the great 19<sup>th</sup> century African-American,
died in 1895. The press interpreted Trump’s use of the Present Perfect to indicate his lack of knowledge of history. It was assumed that English speakers are aware of the unstated restriction on the use of the tense/aspect form for living referents.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The restriction also applies to individual non-humans. For example, I can’t say: “My dog died last year. He *has roamed this neighborhood every day.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">For both types of referent markers, deceased and living, one must pay grammatical attention to whether the referent is alive.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Dan Slobin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Linguistics</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">University of California, Berkeley</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 11:15<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM
<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">양재영</span> via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Michael Daniel, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately I am no expert in the language family, but upon your request I discovered some more mentions of this phenomenon in Hill & Hill (2019), where the suffixes ‑chui7v in Serrano, -ivy in Kitanemuk, and -k in Mountain Cahuilla (here
labeled as 'DECedent') are all said to mark the death of a relative denoted by the kin term they are attached to.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(The usage seems to be broader than just kin terms in Kitanemuk; see §12.3.6.)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It is also claimed that this feature of 'kin terms as verbal forms' is an areal one, also found "i<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">n the Yuman languages that are spoken along the Colorado River, east of Takic."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(Please kindly allow me to share your message so that my reply gets delivered to the OP and those who might find it useful.)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Reference:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hill, Jane H. & Hill, Kenneth C. 2019. Comparative Takic Grammar. Survey of California and other Indian languages. University of California, Berkeley.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jaeyeong Yang<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2024<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">년</span> 9<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">월</span> 27<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">일</span> (<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">금</span>)
<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">오전</span> 12:20, Michael Daniel <<a href="mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com" target="_blank">misha.daniel@gmail.com</a>><span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">님이</span>
<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">작성</span>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear colleague, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">together with my students, I am doing a reading course on the typology of nominal tense. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think we do not have anything yet to read about nominal tense in Uto-Aztecan. To tell the truth, I did not even know this family had nominal tense - shame on me. Would you recommend a good paper dedicated to nominal tense in this family
or any of its languages? Maybe there is a glossed open access corpus of a UA language with a considerable amount of occurrences of nominal tense that we could use?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you in advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Michael Daniel<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Михаил Даниэль<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Я осуждаю агрессию моей страны против Украины.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Michael Daniel<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>I condemn my country's aggression in Ukraine.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">чт, 26 сент. 2024<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>г. в 13:07,
<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">양재영</span> via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Pattie Epps,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tübatulabal (Uto-Aztecan, California) uses a nominal ‘past tense’ suffix -pï- to mark the death of a person (including kins).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The language also has a suffix -bai’i- that is used with a kinship term to indicate the kin being referred to is the last surviving one, and a few other interesting phenomena of expressing the death of the ‘connecting relative’.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Reference: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Voegelin, Charles F. 1935. Tübatulabal Grammar. University of California Press.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jaeyeong Yang<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2024<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">년</span> 9<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">월</span> 26<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">일</span> (<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">목</span>)
<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">오후</span> 7:30, Pun Ho Lui via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">님이</span>
<span style="font-family:"Malgun Gothic",sans-serif">작성</span>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt">Dear Pattie Epps,</span> <o:p>
</o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt">Narragansett (Algic) is claimed to have a suffix called “absentative” which can encode a deceased person or lost possessions, e.g. nókac-i ‘my late deceased mother’ (mother-ABSENTATIVE).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt">Reference:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:black">O’Brien, Frank Waabu. 2009. </span></b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:#2C2C2C;background:white">Grammatical Studies in the Narragansett Language (Second Edition).
</span><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:black">Aquidneck Indian Council.</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:black">Warmest,</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:black">Pun Ho Lui Joe</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Epps, Patience L via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">於</span> 2024<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">年</span>9<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">月</span>26<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">日</span>
<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">下午</span>6:14 <span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">
寫道：</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I'm writing regarding a phenomenon that appears to be widely attested in Amazonian languages, which my project collaborators and I have been calling a 'deceased referent marker'. We are wondering about the
extent to which a comparable phenomenon exists in other languages of the world - from a preliminary survey, it appears to have very few close correlates elsewhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The Amazonian-type DRM construction involves using a particular linguistic marker (which can usually be identified as more grammatical than lexical, though it's not always an easy distinction to make) within
the noun phrase when making direct reference to a deceased referent. This is reminiscent of what occurs in some European languages (e.g. English <i>the <b>late</b> John, </i>Portuguese <i>o <b>finado</b> João</i>), but tends to be less lexical and is ubiquitous
in discourse, rather than being highly optional and/or limited to more formal registers. In some languages, the DRM is a distinct etymon with no other functions; in others, it overlaps with other functions (most frequently that of a nominal past marker). It
is always used with humans (primarily proper names and kin terms), while some languages also allow use with non-human referents. In spite of these variations, there seem to be close parallels in how the construction is formulated and how it is used discursively
across many Amazonian languages. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">An example from Nadëb (Naduhup family, NW Brazil):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt">ee <b>makũuh</b> ỹ haw'ëëh doo paah</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">father DRM 1sg raise NMLZ PST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">'It was my late father who raised me (there).'<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In defining the Amazonian 'type' of DRM, we are focusing on resources that a) consist of a morphological element (affix or clitic hosted by the noun); or b) if arguably more lexical, have a ‘deceased referent’
function that is relatively distinct from other meanings/morphosyntactic expressions and/or appears ubiquitously in DRM contexts. We are excluding other kinds of linguistic strategies for referring to the deceased, including naming prohibitions, necronyms
(passing on the deceased's name to a child), more pragmatically optional periphrastic strategies (e.g. 'my dead relative', 'my relative who died recently', etc.). We are also excluding (though we're interested, for comparative purposes) other types of nominal
morphology relating to the deceased, e.g. a marker that occurs with a kin term X to mean ‘one whose X has recently died’ in Kayardild (Australia): <i>kangku-kurirr</i> (father’s.father-DEAD) ‘one whose father’s father has recently died’ (Evans 1995: 197).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">We'd be very grateful for information about comparable phenomena in languages outside South America.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">All best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Pattie Epps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
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<span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dan I. Slobin
</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Psychology and </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Distinguished Affiliated Professor Emeritus of Linguistics</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">University of California, Berkeley</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">email:
<a href="mailto:slobin@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">slobin@berkeley.edu</a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#3D85C6"><a href="https://danslobin.academia.edu/research" target="_blank">https://danslobin.academia.edu/research</a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><u><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#674EA7"><a href="https://archive.org/search?query=Slobin&sin=TXT" target="_blank">https://archive.org/search?query=Slobin&sin=TXT</a></span></u></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">address: 2323 Rose St., Berkeley, CA 94708, USA</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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<p style="margin:0in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I acknowledge that the UC-Berkeley campus is on the traditional,
</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">ancestral, and unceded land of the Ohlone people.
</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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