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<p>Dear Peter,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>yes, Basque uses the transitive auxiliary with many or even most
unergative verbs (not only complex ones built with the light verb
<i>egin</i>, but also monomorphemic ones like <i>iraun</i> 'to
persist'), because those verbs have an ergative S argument and there
is no possibility for indexing ergative arguments in the
intransitive paradigm. Analysing weather expressions in the form
of <i>euria, elurra, hotza, beroa ... egin</i> 'to rain, to snow,
to be cold, to be warm' as intransitive noun + verb compounds
instead of transitive constructions meaning 'to make rain, snow,
cold, heat ...' does not seem very appropriate to me because the
nouns in these expressions always bear a determiner, but even with
this analysis there would still be an ergative argument indexed in
the auxiliary.</p>
<p>Or did I miss your point?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Silvie Strauß<br>
</p>
<p><i><br>
</i></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">10.10.2024 12:37(e)an, Peter Bakker via
Lingtyp igorleak idatzi zuen:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB8PR01MB604409C36AFD5F70FB4EE64B98782@DB8PR01MB6044.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com">
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Dear Carla,</div>
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<br>
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I am not sure your point of departure is correct. You are right
that the auxiliary suggests ergativity because it is transitive.
But Basque has a range of expressions with the verb egin 'to do'
which makes the expression grammatically transitive but they are
intransitive, sometimes called unergative, like barre egin ' to
laugh', lo egin 'to sleep'. </div>
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<br>
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Beth Levin was the first who pointed this out for Basque in
1983.</div>
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<a
href="https://scholarworks.umass.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/44897a9b-d727-491c-9b98-984dfc919527/content"
id="LPlnk137617" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://scholarworks.umass.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/44897a9b-d727-491c-9b98-984dfc919527/content</a></div>
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<br>
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Weather expressions in Basque, as you mention, tend to be
intransitives, like euria da ' it is raining', hotz(a) da 'it is
cold. </div>
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<br>
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Viveka Velupillai in her typology textbook, section 9.2,
discusses cross-linguistic expressions for weather, with a map.
There are no ergative expressions for weather there, I think. I
doubt whether there are; I have used this exercise of 'it is
raining' with several generations of students, but no one ever
found an ergative-type construction in any language.</div>
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Peter Bakker</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Fra:</b> Lingtyp
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> på vegne af
Kittilä, Seppo via Lingtyp
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 10. oktober 2024 10:47<br>
<b>Til:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Emne:</b> [Lingtyp] Questionnaire on weather verbs</font>
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Dear all,</div>
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(I tried to send this message to the list yesterday, but I
think I failed, if I did not, I sincerely apologize for a
multiple posting)</div>
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I am sending the message/questionnaire below on behalf of a
student. I hope that some of you will find the topic
interesting enough for helping her 🙂 If you have any
questions, you should send them directly to Carla.</div>
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All the best,</div>
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Seppo</div>
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---</div>
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Hello ergative language speakers/researchers! </div>
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I am making my Bachelor thesis about transitive weather
expressions. I have studied Basque and noticed some transitive
weather expressions using ergativity that raised my interest.
No one, at least according to my knowledge, has ever done
research on weather expressions in ergative languages so I
decided to do it myself. I would be very thankful if you could
find time to answer my short questionnaire about certain
weather expressions. In order to keep the questionnaire short,
the questions have been formulated from the basis of Basque
weather expressions showing ergativity. There is probably no
other language in which this would work exactly like in Basque
and that is why it is important that you mention if there are
any other weather expressions that would be transitive/show
ergativity.</div>
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In short, in Basque these expressions have the respective
weather phenomenon (e.g. rain or temperature) as an absolutive
object and no explicit subject (it is shown only in the
ergative agreement of the auxiliary). I would be especially
interested in similar expressions in other ergative languages
if there are any. However, if your language has other types of
ergative weather expressions (e.g. rain as subject) or even if
there were no ergative weather expressions at all (or if they
would be somehow marked or used in specific situations), that
would be valuable information for me as well and I hope that
you could still answer the questionnaire. I am not really
looking for expressions of the type “rain ruined the crop” but
of course you can mention those as well. </div>
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Hotz handia egiten du </div>
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cold big.ABS.DET make.IPFV AUX (ERG3SG>ABS3SG) </div>
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'It is very cold' (lit. 'It makes big cold') </div>
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If your language shows split-ergativity that influences on the
use of ergativity in weather expressions, please bring that up
in the questionnaire. </div>
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Questionnaire:</div>
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1. The name of the language, where is it spoken, what is its
classification? </div>
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Weather expressions: </div>
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2. “Sun is shining” </div>
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3. “It rains” </div>
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4. “Some other precipitation expression like “it snows” or “it
hails” </div>
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5. “It is hot” / “it is cold” </div>
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If the language has means to encode temperature degrees,
answer the following question. If it does not, mention that as
well. </div>
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6. “Temperature is one degree” / “temperature is 20 degrees” </div>
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7. “It starts to rain” / you can mention some other expression
related to the change of weather if you find it interesting </div>
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If there are interesting alternations e.g. in expressing
tense, please mention those expressions in the respective
question. For example, if the language uses ergativity to
encode past but not present, mention the expression in the
past tense in addition to the present tense. </div>
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8. If you come up with an expression that shows ergativity but
is not included in this questionnaire, you can mention it here
(e.g. expressions related to wind, storm...), especially if
expressions above do not show ergativity but this does. </div>
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9. Shortly explain the nature of ergativity in your language,
e.g. if it shows split-ergativity and how animate and
non-animate subjects/objects are encoded. </div>
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Thank you for your contribution! Be prepared that I may want
to contact you and get additional information about the
language if it shows behaviour that is interesting from the
viewpoint of my thesis. And finally, if you happen to know an
article that studies ergative weather expressions in a
language other than Basque, I would be happy to receive it. </div>
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Please send your response to my e-mail: <a
href="mailto:carla.olander@helsinki.fi"
id="OWA3e899c6a-3a2e-df5a-4e71-178732c6d8f3"
class="x_x_OWAAutoLink moz-txt-link-freetext"
data-linkindex="0" style="margin:0px" moz-do-not-send="true">
carla.olander@helsinki.fi</a> </div>
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Thank you and have a great day! </div>
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Carla Olander </div>
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University of Helsinki </div>
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