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Dear all,</div>
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One language that might possibly be relevant to both Seppo's and Geoff's messages (if only, perhaps, tangentially) could be Mongsen Ao. Below is how the dative-marked / unmarked causee opposition is described in Coupe's grammar (p. 195):</div>
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And below is an example showing how the 'agentive' (AGT) case enclitic can be used to stress the volitional involvement of the A argument (p. 157), with no change to the verb:</div>
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<img style="max-width: 460px;" size="95664" contenttype="image/png" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:116776a2-f8d3-4a78-86dd-d64bfc912623"></div>
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Hope this helps!</div>
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Best,</div>
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R</div>
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Coupe, A. R. 2007. <i>A Grammar of Mongsen Ao </i> [Mouton Grammar Series MGL, 39]<i>.
</i>Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.</div>
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<div style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(23, 78, 134);">Riccardo Giomi</div>
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Assistant Professor of Functional Linguistics</div>
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University of Amsterdam</div>
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Faculty of Humanities: Department of Linguistics</div>
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Spuistraat 134, 1012 VB, Amsterdam, The Netherlands</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Haig, Geoffrey via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 October 2024 18:56<br>
<b>To:</b> Kittilä, Seppo <seppo.kittila@helsinki.fi><br>
<b>Cc:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Agentive vs. unagentive causees?</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear Seppo,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I can’t help you with examples of distinct causative markers according to volitionality/agentivity of the causee, but I was curious about your remark re the related alternation
on causers (I broke X accidentally/on purpose), and the reference to Faucconier (2012). I assume you mean her 2012 thesis?
</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As I read Faucconiier, a key take-away point of her work was in fact the typological paucity of strategies for flagging volitionality vs. non-volitionality of a transitive
subject (A), on the A itself. It can be done by a shift in the verb (often involving a voice alternation), but apparently not often via flagging alone.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I found the claim surprising at the time, but I have to admit I have not actually since found a language that exhibits what (I think) she means, which would be a language
that had a marker, –X, to differentiate a volitional breaker from non-volitional breaker, without accompanying changes to the verb (Jane broke the vase (i.e. accidentally) vs. Jane-x broke the vase (intentionally)).
</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I am aware of such examples with intransitive verbs of course (the famous Batsbi/Tsova-Tush examples, and so on). But not of clear cases of transitives.
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Anyway, I’d be happy to hear of clear examples of volitionality-based differential-A marking (ruling out those accompanied by a change of lexical verb (common with light
verbs), or a voice shift on the verb).</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Not sure if we need to open a sub-thread on the list for this, could be just directly relayed to me. I’d be happy to post a general summary of whatever comes in,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best wishes</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Geoff</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">**************************************</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Geoffrey Haig</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Von:</span></b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Kittilä, Seppo via Lingtyp<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 29. Oktober 2024 15:52<br>
<b>An:</b> LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [Lingtyp] Agentive vs. unagentive causees?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",serif; color:black">Dear all,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",serif; color:black">Does anyone here happen to know whether there are languages that would code what I have labelled here as agentive and unagentive causees differently. I refer here to cases like 'John
made me build a house' (agentive causee) and 'great, now you made me break this' (unagentive causee). In both cases, the causee is responsible for what happens, but there are clear differences in whether the causee acts volitionally, purposefully and is in
control. There are many languages where the agentivity/volitionality of the causer is formally manifest in cases like 'I broke something on purpose/accidentally' (for example the case marking of the Causer varies accordingly, see, e.g., Fauconnier 2012), but
are there similar cases for Causees. And I am not looking for cases where the degree of volitionality of the Causee is different as in 'I made/let him do something', but cases where the coding of a Causee that accidentally causes something to happen is different
from a Causee whose action is volitional and controlled.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",serif; color:black">All the best,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",serif; color:black">Seppo</span></p>
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