<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Theodor and all,</div><div><br></div><div>For what it's worth, the type of construction you describe does not seem to exist in Australian languages (not that the absence of evidence should be taken as evidence of absence). I suspect that the meaning of 'the Xer...the Xer...' <b>could </b>be expressed with certain conditional constructions (especially the 'whenever' type), but I have also struggled to find any examples or mentions from the languages I've looked at -- though of course I'm more than happy to be proven wrong!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Here are some of the conditional examples I was thinking of. In Mparntwe Arrernte, conditional relations can be expressed with a combination of sequential marking (<i>-tyenhenge</i>) and modal marking (<i>peke</i> 'maybe'), or with the conjunction (<i>nhenge</i> 'remember this referent from before > whenever'). Note that this link with comparative correlatives isn't made by the grammar writer - this is pure speculation on my part. In general, conditional sentences cannot be construed as having a comparative correlative meaning at all.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Mparntwe Arrernte (Wilkins 1989: 245, 122)<br></div><div><i>the utyene are-tyenhenge, or perne-tyenhenge peke; tanthe-rl-anthe-rliwe-me </i><br>1sgA sore see-SBSQNT or rub-SBSQNT maybe spear-SPORAD.rdp-npp <br>‘Whenever I look at, or rub against, my sore, it hurts.’</div><div>EL: ??'the more I look or rub against my sore, the more it hurts'</div><div><br></div><div><i>nhenge tyerrtye mape lthekelth-ile-lhe-tyekenhe, kele itne ine-mer-ante kwete diabetes.</i><br>REMEMB people pl(grp)(S) stretch-CAUS-REFL-VbNEG O.K. 3plA get-HYPO-ONLY still diabetes<br>‘Whenever people don’t exercise, then they are very likely to get diabetes.’</div><div>EL: ??'the more that people don't exercise, the more likely they are to get diabetes'<br></div><div><br></div><div>If you were to look for comparative correlative constructions in Australian languages, you might start with comparative constructions like the following. However, it's likely that comparatives won't have the 'causal' dimension you're looking for. Here, the construal shouldn't be 'the less compassionate he is, the less I feel sorry for him', but that the two events of lacking compassion are similar in the mind of the speaker.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Wardaman (Merlan 1994: 313, 498)<br></div><div><i>wonggo yi-nga-na-n gurlurrg <b>gija </b>narnaj gurlurrg-marla-wagbawun</i><br>neg IRR-1SG-AUX-PRES sorry <b>as </b>self-ABS sorry-INCH-lacking-ABS<br>'I can't be sorry for him<b> just as</b> he isn't compassionate.' / 'I'm unable to feel sorry for him <b>just as</b> he can't be/become sorry.'</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Ellison Luk<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 at 05:51, David Gil via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">Dear
Theodor, all,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">In
dialects of Malay/Indonesian, as well as closely related Minangkabau, comparative
correlatives are formed with the construction "makin X makin Y",
where "makin" means something like 'increasingly'.<span> </span>Numerous examples can be found in the Gil et
al (2015) corpus by searching for "makin"; here is one such example
from Minangkabau:<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">makin
jauah talampok nyo sesuatu, makin tinggi nilai nyo<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">increasingly
far INVOL:shut 3 one:thing increasingly high value 3<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">'The
further something is covered, the higher its value'<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">Best,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">David<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="color:black">Gil, David, Uri Tadmor, John Bowden and Bradley Taylor
(2015) <i>Data from the Jakarta Field
Station, Department of Linguistics, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary
Anthropology</i>, 1999-2015. [</span><span><a href="https://archive.mpi.nl/islandora/object/lat%3A1839_00_0000_0000_0021_10DE_A" target="_blank"><span style="color:black">https://archive.mpi.nl/islandora/object/lat%3A1839_00_0000_0000_0021_10DE_A</span></a><span style="color:black">]<span></span></span></span></p>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 5:29 AM Maria Koptjevskaja Tamm via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><font size="3">Dear all,</font></div>
<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3">I am posting a query from our student Theodor Brus, who is looking for data and information on comparative correlative clauses across languages. </font></div>
<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><span style="font-size:medium">"</span><span style="font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Hello! My name is Theodor Brus and i am writing my bachelor thesis this spring at the Department of linguistics
at Stockholm University. I want to do a typological study of comparative correlative clauses (CCs). Sag (2010, p. 526) defines comparative correlative clauses as ‘monotonic relations between two differentials’. However, there is often a causative function
in one direction, the first element is the reason for the state of the second element. The following examples illustrate this point.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3">‘The worse I feel, the less inclined I am to get to work’</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3">‘The more the sun shone, the happier people got’</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">What I am looking for are glossed sentences from any language that have a free translation which corresponds to an English CC. I would also be grateful for pointers to descriptions
and discussion of these phenomena in various languages. </font></font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please send your replies to me, </font></font><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><a href="mailto:brus@ling.su.se" target="_blank">brus@ling.su.se</a> </font><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:medium">All
responses will be grossly appreciated and acknowledged.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3" style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Sag, I. A. (2010). ENGLISH FILLER-GAP CONSTRUCTIONS. <i>Language</i>, <i>86</i>(3), 486–545. <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/40961690" target="_blank">http://www.jstor.org/stable/40961690</a></font><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">”</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3">Kind regards,</font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal">
<font size="3">Maria Koptjevskaja Tamm</font></div>
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
Prof. Maria Koptjevskaja Tamm<br>
Dept. of linguistics, Stockholm university, 106 91, Stockholm, Sweden<br>
Editor-in-chief of “Linguistic Typology”</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
President-Elect of Societas Linguistic Europaea<br>
<a href="http://www.ling.su.se/tamm" target="_blank">www.ling.su.se/tamm</a><br>
<a href="mailto:tamm@ling.su.se" target="_blank">tamm@ling.su.se</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72">David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:dapiiiiit@gmail.com" target="_blank">dapiiiiit@gmail.com</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-082113720302</pre>
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